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Devil
5/13/2011 9:16am,
http://www.fox11az.com/news/local/Possible-lawsuit-in-Tucson-SWAT-shooting-121714824.html

I don't really blame the individual officers. Once they go through the door and see someone pointing a rifle in their direction, someone is bound to die.

My gripe is really with law enforcement's overuse of SWAT teams. You see this kind of crap all the time. SWAT teams raid someone's house and scare the hell out of the armed owner. Then the homeowner pays the price. Occasionally they're not even in the right house.

There was no need to roll in this guy's house like this over a drug warrant. Especially with his wife and kid there, which they should've know if they conducted proper surveillance. This was a recipe for disaster from the start.

They weren't serving a murder warrant. They weren't trying to arrest someone with a history of violence. There was no hostage situation. No threats of violence had been made. They were making a routine drug bust. They should've knocked on his door and taken him into custody like they would anybody else.

ermghoti
5/13/2011 9:34am,
Knock on the door=drugs down toilet. That's half the reason they came up with no-knock. The department denies it was a no-knock anyway, lat I heard/ FWIW.

Devil
5/13/2011 9:39am,
Knock on the door=drugs down toilet. That's half the reason they came up with no-knock. The department denies it was a no-knock anyway, lat I heard/ FWIW.

I understand that a knock on the door could mean drugs down the toilet. My opinion is that the need to score a drug bust isn't worth employing militaristic tactics to storm a house inhabited by an entire family. Not when no lives are at stake and the suspect has no history of violence.

tao.jonez
5/13/2011 10:02am,
70 shots. Dude was holding a rifle but safety was on. I get it, but damn.

I agree with Devil, some drugs weren't worth someone's life. This sounds like a major fuckup on the part of swat. Also, using swat seems extreme anyway.

Then again it could be suicide by police. Don't know the guys mental state but this type stuff happens. He was post combat and using drugs...

It is Fake
5/13/2011 10:09am,
Well, this started in the eighties and went all through the nineties in az. It is news because it is a Vet (RIP). In AZ there were a couple of cops killed during swat entries over Drugs. So, this does not surprise me at all.

Yes, I'll see if I can find some articles. Hopefully it will finally make them investigate policies.

Rivington
5/13/2011 10:09am,
I understand that a knock on the door could mean drugs down the toilet. My opinion is that the need to score a drug bust isn't worth employing militaristic tactics to storm a house inhabited by an entire family. Not when no lives are at stake and the suspect has no history of violence.

Man, when even devil comes out against arbitrary use of violence against criminals or potential criminals, you know the situation with SWAT team use is messed up.

Kintanon
5/13/2011 10:13am,
Then again it could be suicide by police. Don't know the guys mental state but this type stuff happens. He was post combat and using drugs...

Wow, way to assume the guy was a drug addict with exactly zero evidence. WTF dude?

Devil
5/13/2011 10:29am,
Man, when even devil comes out against arbitrary use of violence against criminals or potential criminals, you know the situation with SWAT team use is messed up.

LOL. Well, it's most likely because it strikes a nerve regarding the welfare of my own family, rather than a genuine concern for others.

I've got guns hanging out the anus at my house. Any kick at my door is likely to be met with a hail of gunfire. If I get some trigger happy SWAT team at my door because they don't know how to use Google Maps, it's probably going to be up to me to make sure things don't get out of hand. I may be disoriented and half asleep but I have to quickly make sense of what's going on or people will die. That's not the way it should be.

This was just lazy police work. They could've raided the house when nobody was home and arrested the suspect simultaneously. They took the easy way out and they're responsible for the consequences.

tao.jonez
5/13/2011 10:37am,
Wow, way to assume the guy was a drug addict with exactly zero evidence. WTF dude?

I wasn't assuming anything - it is possible that the post-combat veteran with drugs in his house could have been in an abnormal mental state.

Re-read my post homie.

("could be" and "don't know the guys mental state" are the indicators that I am not assuming he's a drug addict.)

I also stated that it sounds like the SWAT guys fucked up.

Kintanon
5/13/2011 1:13pm,
You're still assuming he had drugs in his house. The article mentions a cellphone and a computer which were confiscated in regards to a possible drug conspiracy. No drugs are mentioned in the article as being found in his house. You are STILL jumping to the huge conclusion that they guy had drugs, was on drugs, etc... As of this time NO DRUGS were found.

ojgsxr6
5/13/2011 2:02pm,
If you hear someone kicking down your door and screaming "POLICE,POLICE,POLICE, SEARCH WARRANT!!!" and you pull out your gun to "investigate" what do you expect is going to happen. Stop blaming the police for other peoples actions.

ojgsxr6
5/13/2011 2:06pm,
and before you question the intelligence of going in with a no knock warrant, with a SWAT team for a drug warrant, a judge signed off on the no knock search warrant(which requires probable cause, eg some form of evidence was presented to the judge), and he was armed.

Cayvmann
5/13/2011 2:20pm,
If you hear someone kicking down your door and screaming "POLICE,POLICE,POLICE, SEARCH WARRANT!!!" and you pull out your gun to "investigate" what do you expect is going to happen. Stop blaming the police for other peoples actions.

So, if I want to break into somebody's house and get the drop on them, all I have to do is yell POLICE, etc, and just start shooting?



Bullshit

ojgsxr6
5/13/2011 2:23pm,
The uniforms and armored vests with "POLICE" written on them usually give the fact they're actually the police away every time.

tao.jonez
5/13/2011 2:47pm,
You're still assuming he had drugs in his house. The article mentions a cellphone and a computer which were confiscated in regards to a possible drug conspiracy. No drugs are mentioned in the article as being found in his house. You are STILL jumping to the huge conclusion that they guy had drugs, was on drugs, etc... As of this time NO DRUGS were found.

Foremost, I believe SWAT fucked up in this case. I am simply conceding that there could be some factor that caused the guy to behave in a manner the cops perceived as threatening. It could even have been intentional.

Given that this is a drug case, drugs could be that factor. The guy is a veteran and PTSD or depression could **** with the guys mental state. He could have just been in a shitty mood. Or he could have been woken up by these guys storming him, and grabbed a gun and died thinking he was protecting his family. I don't know.

I hope that the judge that signed the warrant, and the officers that served it didn't **** up and cause the death of someone who has served our country honorably. But it sounds like they did.

ojgsxr6
5/13/2011 2:49pm,
Foremost, I believe SWAT fucked up in this case.

How exactly did the SWAT officers **** up?


A shooting where PCSD SWAT fired 70 shots at Guereña who was armed with a rifle with the safety on.

And to anyone not familiar with guns, you can not tell if the safety of a firearm is on when its being pointed at you