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View Full Version : "instant" joint breaks illegal in UFC?



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kracker
4/19/2011 4:18pm,
I recently had a silly argument with a practitioner of Systema where he was saying "ring sports" are no good on the street compared with stuff like Systema and KM. His main argument was that instant joint breaks (ex. leg, ankle, arm, wrist etc.) are illegal in the UFC. Irregardless of the general silliness generally associated with style vs style BS, I'm not even sure that's even true. It might be as I've certainly never seen anyone do an "instant break" in a UFC fight, but I've read the UFC rules, and don't know which one specifically forbids such a technique. If I understand correctly, "small joint manipulation" only refers to fingers and toes.

DCS
4/19/2011 4:30pm,
No, they aren't illegal in MMA.

For instance:


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q_718dOW09k

Epeeist
4/19/2011 4:35pm,
Engaging in unsportsmanlike conduct that causes an injury to an opponent I think covers those sorts of things. However, your Systema buddy is thinking fallaciously because if someone puts a move on slow in the ring to give someone a chance to tap, why the hell couldn't they just do the same thing harder and faster on the street? Grappling moves give one the option to apply slowly or quickly and if the submission is sunk it doesn't matter how hard I crank it because unless you know how to escape, you won't.

jnp
4/19/2011 4:40pm,
I recently had a silly argument with a practitioner of Systema where he was saying "ring sports" are no good on the street compared with stuff like Systema and KM. His main argument was that instant joint breaks (ex. leg, ankle, arm, wrist etc.) are illegal in the UFC. Irregardless of the general silliness generally associated with style vs style BS, I'm not even sure that's even true. It might be as I've certainly never seen anyone do an "instant break" in a UFC fight, but I've read the UFC rules, and don't know which one specifically forbids such a technique. If I understand correctly, "small joint manipulation" only refers to fingers and toes.
You know what's worse than arguing with idiots? When their idiocy infects you.

judoka_uk
4/19/2011 4:54pm,
Irregardless of the general silliness
'Irregardless' is not a fucking word. It's 'regardless' or 'irrespective' there is no need to prefix regardless with 'ir' or create a portmanteau, when two perfectly good words already exist to express this notion.

Seriously, where has this stupid non-word come from?

wetware
4/19/2011 5:02pm,
'Irregardless' is not a fucking word. It's 'regardless' or 'irrespective' there is no need to prefix regardless with 'ir' or create a portmanteau, when two perfectly good words already exist to express this notion.

Seriously, where has this stupid non-word come from?

It's really common in the US, unfortunately

Just Guess
4/19/2011 5:25pm,
They're certainly not encouraged. In addition to the sheer dickishness of purposefully breaking someone's joints the promotional companies wouldn't be happy about one of their fighters having to take a large amount of time off to heal.

HereBeADragon
4/19/2011 6:00pm,
Stupid argument but it is generally true the joint breaks are not used in MMA (at least not on purpose). I'd think if nothing else that if a guy keeps breaking peoples limbs no one is going to want to fight him. More over anyone who does is going to be out to break him first. I would admit that MMA lacks certain tools that are important in a street encounter but Systema and a lot of those RBSD styles have even more glaring holes. I'd suggest the next time you have to put up with this practitioner you go ahead and roshambo him for who has the d3ad1y.

Permalost
4/19/2011 6:07pm,
When you consider how hard it is for a fighter to hit another fighter just right to cause a knockout, it seems even harder than that for a fighter to target two different small spots (fulcrum and lever) at the exact same time to cause a joint break.

judoka_uk
4/19/2011 6:13pm,
Its also pretty difficult to 'instantly' break someone's joint. You can rapidly cause extreme pain relative easily but instantly breaking the joint is quite difficult.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ot7XK_C3uWQ

Despite a totally dominant position and complete control Aoki has to apply a lot of pressure to actually break the joint.

PointyShinyBurn
4/19/2011 6:53pm,
I'd think if nothing else that if a guy keeps breaking peoples limbs no one is going to want to fight him.People fight guys who knock people out. Which risks death, not a few months in a cast.

Plenty of people aggressively crank submissions and seem to be able to get fights. Aoki and Imanari have badly fucked up several of their opponents.

The reason you don't see a lot of 'instant' joint breaks in MMA (standing armlocks and the like) is that they're super low percentage against people who actually know how to fight.

Colin
4/19/2011 9:44pm,
'Irregardless' is not a fucking word. It's 'regardless' or 'irrespective' there is no need to prefix regardless with 'ir' or create a portmanteau, when two perfectly good words already exist to express this notion.

Seriously, where has this stupid non-word come from?

Beat me to it.

Other pet-hates: "orientated" <- fucking what? it's a reconjugation of a conjugated verb. Just like spewing out something you ate, and then vomited already, and then ate again.
This of course includes "disorientated" and other related, retarded versions of the word.

TaeBo_Master
4/19/2011 10:15pm,
'Irregardless' is not a fucking word. It's 'regardless' or 'irrespective' there is no need to prefix regardless with 'ir' or create a portmanteau, when two perfectly good words already exist to express this notion.

Seriously, where has this stupid non-word come from?

Sadly, technically, irregardless is a word, according to major dictionaries. Everything about your premise is absolutely correct. Its existence comes from a misappropriation of an unnecessary prefix, and its being confused for the more precise "irrespective". Furthermore, using the word "irregardless" makes one sound like an idiot, and serves to instantly prove you a moron to anyone with even a shred of a brain. It's adoption into the lexicon is in every way a concession to ignorance which I find absolutely deplorable. But, technically, it is a word.

ProfessorChaos
4/19/2011 10:31pm,
People fight guys who knock people out. Which risks death, not a few months in a cast.

Plenty of people aggressively crank submissions and seem to be able to get fights. Aoki and Imanari have badly fucked up several of their opponents.

The reason you don't see a lot of 'instant' joint breaks in MMA (standing armlocks and the like) is that they're super low percentage against people who actually know how to fight.
Exactly right. Most of these instant things are best used while being threatened before the attacker realizes that you are fighting. If it doesn't work, then you have to actually fight. Then you need to stick to the high percentage stuff.

Also a lot of joint locks work better on someone who is holding a club or something. I think a lot of them were intended to be disarms. Then because of non-live training they got bastardized.

WhiteShark
4/20/2011 7:47am,
Ask Rousimar Palhares about "instant" joint breaks. They seem to work for him.

danno
4/20/2011 8:17am,
it's much easier to break a joint when you've controlled the body first. position before submission. loose limbs are difficult to break.

to just grab a limb and crank it, you're more likely to cause an injury which will only become apparent once your opponent has cooled down after the fight.

if you want to destroy a limb, it's much better to get good control and bend it greater than 90 degrees the wrong way. there's an aoki example of this too:

http://youtu.be/ZpYV4ZQYKy8