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Colin
4/08/2011 4:14pm,
Ideas are not things I usally feel threatening.
So clearly, we agree about that.



I find 1 hour a week of breakfalling practise excessive. The niche you are targetting would be better served with 1 hour of judo practise under competent instruction. Uchikomi: ten reps, the last throwing uke, rinse and repeat. Last 15 min of randori. Shower and beers. See you next week.

Well, I'm never going to suggest that Ukemi alone is comparably effective to Judo training, I just think that there's a financial opportunity for Aikido masters to become safety experts :)

BKR
4/08/2011 4:20pm,
The answer, as usual, is DO JUDO.

Ben

Colin
4/08/2011 4:24pm,
The answer, as usual, is DO JUDO.

Ben

http://i528.photobucket.com/albums/dd321/kungfucolin/wood.jpg

T___T

judoka_uk
4/08/2011 4:37pm,
Getting rid of all the softcocks who seem to infest Aikido dojos the world over.

Introduce some kind of minimum sign up requirements like:
Be able to do more than 20 press ups
Be able to talk to a girl about something she actually wants to talk about
Laugh at offensive jokes
Be able to tell one good dirty joke
Have at least 2 funny sex anecdotes
Have at least 4 funny drunken antics anecdotes

That would be a pretty good start.

Permalost
4/08/2011 4:49pm,
Well, I'm never going to suggest that Ukemi alone is comparably effective to Judo training, I just think that there's a financial opportunity for Aikido masters to become safety experts :)
Random non-fighting safety was something that I felt I got out of doing systema (probably the main thing, besides conditioning).

DCS
4/08/2011 4:55pm,
Perma,

Still with Sodeman?

Yoj
4/08/2011 5:12pm,
Have at least 2 funny sex anecdotes


Theres nothing funny about sex.


Unless you force her to dress as a clown!

Permalost
4/08/2011 5:30pm,
Perma,

Still with Sodeman?
No, their schedule changed around so I decided to try out something else while still new. Since I started training with my current teacher I've been content to just go there. Jeff's classes were a lot of fun though,and very physically challenging. It was like a boot camp mixed with recess for adults.

Vince Tortelli
4/08/2011 5:37pm,
Getting rid of all the softcocks who seem to infest Aikido dojos the world over.

Introduce some kind of minimum sign up requirements like:
Be able to do more than 20 press ups
Be able to talk to a girl about something she actually wants to talk about
Laugh at offensive jokes
Be able to tell one good dirty joke
Have at least 2 funny sex anecdotes
Have at least 4 funny drunken antics anecdotes

That would be a pretty good start.

I know a fair number of BJJ players, and even some judoka, who wouldn't survive a roster cut based on that list, and you want to apply it to akido?

Just come out and say how you really feel, man, I'll start.

"What do you get when you have 50 akidoka at the bottom of the ocean?"
" A good start."

Yoj
4/08/2011 5:46pm,
Maybe that's what misogi is for, washes the weak downstream

Colin
4/08/2011 5:48pm,
Conclusion 1: Many Aikidoka exist who are competent at ukemi.

1.1: Many Aikido schools train with overly compliant drilling and/or minimum resistance
1.1.1: The philosophy of 'Ai-Ki' (Harmony-Commitment); [embracing not resisting] pervades the entire organization
1.1.2: Aikido grading syllabus features an Aesthetic criteria, judging technical prowess based on the natural harmony and beauty of the movement.
1.1.3: The Syllabus contains dance-like Aesthetic movements that require repetitive drilling to achieve consistency to a gradeable standard.
1.2: Compliant drilling accomodates extra ukemi practice.
1.2.1: Being eager to co-operate with a throw attempt results in more breakfalling opportunities than resisting throws and/or takedown attempts.
1.2.1.1: Co-operative partners spend more time throwing and being thrown than resisting throws.
1.2.1.2: More time being thrown means more breakfalls.

Conclusion 2: Aikido masters may soon face unemployment.

2.1: Aikido currently has limited appeal to the Modern Martial Artist.
2.1.1: Effective Training is clearly evident in combat sports, BJJ, Muay Thai, Judo, etc..
2.1.2: None of the MMA Champions in any weight class in the UFC have ever claimed Aikido as the secret to their success. (with the exception of Silva with his toungue in cheek reference to Seagal's 'Aikido kick')
2.2: There are no significant amount of Aikidoka emerging with any success in Professional MMA
2.2.1: Professional MMA fighting results are a reasonable tool to gauge some degree of a Martial Art's effectiveness, popularity, and widespread availability of quality training available in Combat sports.

Conclusion 3: If you're not going to do Judo, you should at least study Ukemi.

3.1: The possibility of being thrown onto your back and/or head in MMA or 'the str33t' is significant enough to prepare yourself for with some type of training.
3.1.1: The difference between expert-level Ukemi and basic-level Ukemi just might make the difference between a recoverable injury and paraplegia in an extreme situation.
3.2: Practicing MMA fighters are well-equipped to improve their ukemi with little extra training
3.2.1: Modern MMA gyms are primarily concerned with physical assault tactics, stressing the importance of agility, flexibility, and reflex
3.2.2: Takedowns and groundfighting represent a significant component of a rounded MMA game.
3.2.3 Competitive MMA techniques require a minimum standard of Physical Athletic ability
3.3: Ukemi primarily concerns itself with flexibility, agility, and reflex
3.4: Aikido may have a financial future in modern MMA by evolving into a more complete ukemi system, but devoid of any 'Aikinage' so to speak
3.4.1: Despite little combat applicability for Aikinage, the Ukemi of a competent Aikidoka is sufficient to instruct breakfalling techniques to unfamiliar fighters.
3.4.1.1: Although Aikido reputedly has a 'steep' learning curve (this issue is contentious) Aikido beginners are throwing each other to the mat and learning to breakfall properly within their first couple of lessons, and this training continues right through the senior ranks.
3.4.1.2: In Aikido training, breakfalling drills often form part of the warmup in addition to breakfalling used in technical drills.

Final Conclusion: Ex (or current) Aikidoka (or Judoka) training in MMA have an opportunity to improve the Ukemi in their camp by offering Ukemi specific classes, and furthermore this requires little effort and promises worthy reward.

DCS
4/08/2011 6:03pm,
DAY hacked Colin's account, or so it seems.

Colin
4/08/2011 6:04pm,
I just beat the internet

judoka_uk
4/08/2011 6:07pm,
I know a fair number of BJJ players, and even some judoka, who wouldn't survive a roster cut based on that list, and you want to apply it to akido?

Just come out and say how you really feel, man, I'll start.

"What do you get when you have 50 akidoka at the bottom of the ocean?"
" A good start."
Maybe my experience is tainted by associating too much with sport Judoka.

I used to run a university club and we had all sorts and yeh a good portion wouldn't have survived the cut. However, their departing wouldn't have been much of a loss to the club and we would still have had a decent membership.

You apply this to an average Aikido club and you'll have no one left in the room.

That's a big part of the problem, too many pussies in Aikido.

What do we say, so often, are the two things needed to make Aikido decent - effective training methodology and a delivery system.

Your average Aikijoker is the reason these two things are never going to go mainstream for Aikido. They can't physically, emotionally and mentally cope with the training methodology that would be required fo it to approach effectivness, re: sparring. The same problem stops them cross training in arts that could provide a delivery system combined with their deep desire to overcome their vast inadequacies without any actual effort means they buy into the whole bs about being too deadly etc...

I went to a couple of sessions of all the other JMAs on campus as a little fact finding mission. Aikido was filled entirely with scrawny pansies, asian girls and a few tubby white chicks. The Jujitsu clubs were filled with the British equivalent of band and AV club members. The membership is a good 80% of the reason those martial arts as represented on campus, stink.

Fix the membership and the training methodology and delivery system issues will resolve themselves.

Permalost
4/08/2011 6:10pm,
Maybe aikido would be more popular if all the dojos focused on Stephen Seagal/Anderson Silva face kicks.

Colin
4/08/2011 6:21pm,
If you want to 'save' Aikido and Hapkido, start a school where the minimum requierement is that students should have a Judo Shodan (or the equivalent in other grappling arts) before they can start to study Aikido.

I'd also add that I don't think this is a terrible idea, either - but it's definitely a different vision than what I had in mind.