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atomicpoet
1/23/2011 7:52pm,
I've been wanting to ask this question for awhile. After I get proficient enough at Western boxing, I want to take up Xingyi. But there's a riddle about it I cannot seem to solve.

I've spent hours pouring through Xingyi forms, and while It is Fake says the footwork is "pretty basic", I just can't wrap my head around it. Here's a few clips for reference:

YouTube - Xing Yi Quan ( Hsing-I, 河北形意拳 ) 5 Elements and Linking form (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iQZ3xn-UmjI)
YouTube - Xinyidao 4 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m48-fzaqXw8)
YouTube - 崔杰利 形意拳VS散打 xingyiquan combat (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EKbzR8N3AN0)

Typically, when I throw a strike, I push off the ball of my back foot for power generation. Yet, with Xingyi, I often see people lift their back foot while striking, then shift stances.

The actual strikes themselves look powerful enough. The question is, how does Xingyi footwork generate this power?

Any insight is appreciated.

Rivington
1/23/2011 8:11pm,
Internally.

Permalost
1/23/2011 8:54pm,
The power generation doesn't look so esoteric- they're hitting straight while moving the body forward.

Ice Hole
1/24/2011 1:30am,
I think it's all in the waist... I might be wrong.:iamwithst

Conde Koma
1/24/2011 3:54am,
The actual strikes themselves look powerful enough.

This is the key. Find someone who can generate more power with xingyi first, then just ask them.

But yeah, it's probably from a combination of twisting the body and lots of specific conditioning.

MMAMickey
1/24/2011 5:06am,
Typically, when I throw a strike, I push off the ball of my back foot for power generation. Yet, with Xingyi, I often see people lift their back foot while striking, then shift stances.

The actual strikes themselves look powerful enough. The question is, how does Xingyi footwork generate this power?

Any insight is appreciated.

Keeping your back foot on the floor isn't to push through the strike, it's to be able to reset/retreat afterwards. As such, in boxing, taking your back foot off the floor is considered bad technique.

Your power should come from the weight transer as you take a short step forward, as well as the rotation of your core. Your back foot should not be pushing, but able to pivot on the toe.

Quite a few people move their back feet when they strike. Hell, anyone who steps forward to follow up a straight right is doing the same thing.

From what I've seen of xingyi, their power generation is of little difference to boxing (I may be wrong here). But I would recommend you get more experience in boxing before you question power generation any further, as your boxing improves, you'll understand most aspects of striking better.

Diesel_Claus
1/24/2011 2:27pm,
Dude, stop sweating Xingyi so much. After you have drilled stiking into your muscle memory through boxing, you won't be able to un-learn how to generate power. You learn a lot quicker in boxing then you would in Xingyi. Watch the body movement and twist at the waste in Xingyi and boxing. There are a lot of similarities.

Don't sweat the foot movement in Xingyi so much. Because in my opinion, foot work in boxing is far superior. What Xingyi does well is generate power while moving forward and closing distance. So you get there quickly and effectively. They also have some cool techniques for striking while moving backward, which I think is one of the few striking arts that does.

But watching 5 element forms on youtube is not going to tell you anything about the art. If you are obsessing about it, just go to a class. Then you can get it out of your system and go back to boxing!

It is Fake
1/24/2011 3:08pm,
But watching 5 element forms on youtube is not going to tell you anything about the art.Classes.



From what I've seen of xingyi, their power generation is of little difference to boxing (I may be wrong here). But I would recommend you get more experience in boxing before you question power generation any further, as your boxing improves, you'll understand most aspects of striking better.
It Is Fake on Hsing-I, Xingyi, Hsingyi - No BS MMA and Martial Arts (http://www.bullshido.net/forums/showthread.php?t=69374)


Define footwork because, it must mean something different to me than you guys.

Xingyi has very little footwork when compared to boxing IMO. Then again, the way you two are using footwork, I have no clue what you are referring to.

MMAMickey
1/24/2011 3:44pm,
So, why quote me? I didn't mention footwork.

It is Fake
1/24/2011 3:47pm,
So, why quote me? I didn't mention footwork.
Neither does the thread I posted

I am agreeing with the two posts and giving a thread. Two people mentioned footwork if you didn't, it obviously wouldn't concern you.

Diesel_Claus
1/24/2011 4:20pm,
To me footwork is creating angles, creating distance, closing distance, and using footwork for evasion.

I think boxing is better at it. Xingyi's footwork seems to just facilitate the lateral movement. I didn't find it even to be half as effective as boxing. Even the Sanda guys I have sparred, threw the Xingyi footwork out the window when sparring starting. One guy who uses Xingyi and no Sanda or kickboxing, had issues moving around the ring.

It is Fake
1/24/2011 4:29pm,
Xingyi has very little footwork when compared to boxing IMO.

Yes, we agree. I'm still need atomic to comment because, he must be talking about something else.

atomicpoet
1/24/2011 4:50pm,
I guess "push" is the wrong word I'm looking for. To be more precise, what I mean is that in boxing, you put pressure on the ball of your hind foot when you strike. While I don't think the foot itself generates power, I think it helps. Without balance, strikes are weak.

With Xingyi, I see people sometimes make strikes with all the weight on the front foot as the hind foot then moves in front. When this is done, the striker seems perfectly balanced and seems able to hit with power. I think that's pretty cool.

The question is: how is this done?

chainpunch
1/24/2011 4:56pm,
Someone correct me if I am wrong but the power comes from the former rear foot moving forward in front not from the rear foot coming equal to the front foot. The practitioner strikes as the foot moves forward which makes it acceptable for common understanding. There seems to be a pause as the rear comes up to the supporting leg but that motion does not look like its timed with a strike.

It is Fake
1/24/2011 4:57pm,
I guess "push" is the wrong word I'm looking for. To be more precise, what I mean is that in boxing, you put pressure on the ball of your hind foot when you strike. While I don't think the foot itself generates power, I think it helps. Without balance, strikes are weak.

Okay there are multiple ways to generate power in boxing. You are naming one way that YOU use.



With Xingyi, I see people sometimes make strikes with all the weight on the front foot as the hind foot then moves in front. When this is done, the striker seems perfectly balanced and seems able to hit with power. I think that's pretty cool.

The question is: how is this done?

I've seen boxers who do the same thing. Go see if you can find a pdf of Jack Dempseys boxing book and read it.
.

atomicpoet
1/24/2011 5:21pm,
Okay there are multiple ways to generate power in boxing. You are naming one way that YOU use.

It sure is, but at the same time, it's how I've been taught. For greater context, I've been taught to always keep my hind foot behind my front foot, and to never let it go in front. In Xingyi, I see it done all the time.

I know I can take a class and find out how it's done. However, in another thread, you asked me why I found Xingyi's footwork to be confusing, and this is why.


I've seen boxers who do the same thing. Go see if you can find a pdf of Jack Dempseys boxing book and read it.
.

I absolutely would. However, rather than plodding through the entire book and trying to find out which parts are relevant to Xingyi, are you aware of which chapter talks about this particular topic?