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Rock Ape
1/13/2011 2:06pm,
Ok, I need people to look at these certificates and provide me with a no BS assessment on how authentic they appear to be from an accuracy stand point.

I already know these certificates originate from a non-legitimate source, I don't need to be told that, what I need to establish is, are any of these direct copies of actual legitimate certificates which have then been edited and duplicated for on line sale.

http://img72.imageshack.us/img72/3120/gojuinstructor.jpg

http://img203.imageshack.us/img203/7130/japankarateassn.jpg

http://img233.imageshack.us/img233/7840/kodokan1.jpg

http://img833.imageshack.us/img833/1946/kyokushin.jpg

http://img59.imageshack.us/img59/5365/shorinryushidokan1.jpg

http://img510.imageshack.us/img510/503/shotokankyu.jpg

http://img707.imageshack.us/img707/7898/yamaguchi.jpg

joecos
1/13/2011 3:20pm,
This:

http://i.imgur.com/OzyYy.jpg

Is an exact replica of mine, except for the name and date.

The web site selling these things calls this "The DD-214 issued upon completion of military service". It is not, the DD 214 is a form that contains information about you and your service. This certificate is largely ceremonial in nature, no one has ever asked for my discharge cert., when they want to verify service the ask for the actual DD214.

danniboi07
1/13/2011 4:14pm,
Check the arrow I added for a nice photo-edit lol.

11486


In response to your question, this Judo certificate is NOT a scan of an actual Kodokan certificate. It is 100% created from scratch. The forger even goes so far as to say Kyuzo Mifune was one of the founders of Judo.

Beowulf
1/13/2011 8:44pm,
The 4th one is supposedly signed by Mas Oyama a year after his death...

helmutlvx
1/13/2011 10:57pm,
I typed in "Yamaguchi Gogen certificate" into Google Images and got this result as the first item:
http://kobudokarate.com/images/SenseiInstructorsCertificatesm.jpg
Perhaps the source for the Goju-kai cert?

BKR
1/13/2011 11:24pm,
The "Kodokan Judo" certificate is no way shape or form from the real Kodokan.

Ben

Gezere
1/13/2011 11:41pm,
The 4th one is supposedly signed by Mas Oyama a year after his death...

It still may be legit.
That one could actually be one of the ready made certs for the particular group. There was basically a template that dojo owners could use. The Reg # can be used to see if it is truly legit.

ADM
1/14/2011 12:45am,
What Gezere said. But is that 4th one meant to be a scan or a recreation?

judoka_uk
1/15/2011 9:07am,
The first one is an obvious forgery. However their other one:

An imitation Kodokan certificate

http://www.fittoprintstore.com/images/kodokan%20judo%20JAPAN%281%29.jpg


Is quite close to an original, if you compare it to an original such as Mr. Ohlenkamp's, which they appear to have used as a basis for the copy

http://www.bullshido.org/w/images/thumb/e/e1/Ohlenkamp_Kodokan_Cert.jpg/400px-Ohlenkamp_Kodokan_Cert.jpg

The second column of text, from the left, is different to Ohlenkamp's. However, as I have no Japanese I don't know if that's a date column or what.

Also its interesting for Risei Kano to have signed the certificate in 1985 when Yukimitsu Kano was Kodokan kancho in 1985, Risei Kano having stepped down in 1980. I believe this is probably because they just copied the Ohlenkamp certificate and didn't check their dates.

They've also not been able to replicate the english font properly, in particular note how on Ohlenkamp's the 'first' is markedly different than the accompanying text, yet on the imitation ones its the same font.

Rock Ape
1/15/2011 11:45am,
Thank you guys keep that stuff coming in, I have plans for this and need as much information as possible.

judoka_uk
1/15/2011 11:55am,
Thank you guys keep that stuff coming in, I have plans for this and need as much information as possible.
Also as far as I'm aware no one is 'licenced', if such a term is applicable, to issue Kodokan rank certificates replacements or otherwise apart from the Kodokan.

Though I imagine that if you wanted to find out 100% you would have to e-mail the Kodokan's international department who are notoriously slow in replying.


Check the arrow I added for a nice photo-edit lol.

LOL! Nice spot. I've blown it up a bit:

http://i.imgur.com/j3q8G.png

Gezere
1/15/2011 1:21pm,
The first one is an obvious forgery. However their other one:

An imitation Kodokan certificate

http://www.fittoprintstore.com/images/kodokan%20judo%20JAPAN%281%29.jpg


Is quite close to an original, if you compare it to an original such as Mr. Ohlenkamp's, which they appear to have used as a basis for the copy

http://www.bullshido.org/w/images/thumb/e/e1/Ohlenkamp_Kodokan_Cert.jpg/400px-Ohlenkamp_Kodokan_Cert.jpg

The second column of text, from the left, is different to Ohlenkamp's. However, as I have no Japanese I don't know if that's a date column or what.

Also its interesting for Risei Kano to have signed the certificate in 1985 when Yukimitsu Kano was Kodokan kancho in 1985, Risei Kano having stepped down in 1980. I believe this is probably because they just copied the Ohlenkamp certificate and didn't check their dates.

They've also not been able to replicate the english font properly, in particular note how on Ohlenkamp's the 'first' is markedly different than the accompanying text, yet on the imitation ones its the same font.

They took out Neil's name in KATAKANA and left the date blank (second line from the left) from the first and copied pretty much everything else.

GirlJock
1/16/2011 7:12pm,
These are two certificates that I have from my service time. The Army one has a different year on the bottom, but other than that it looks terrific. I have to wonder who's signatures they put on the documents. I am very tempted to order the AF one and see what it comes back like. I emailed the guy and he said it is a one day turnaround and he can match the font from the time period. I know mine were done on a typewriter, lol, but I suppose they are using computer nowadays.

I see they have an AF basic training certificate on the site. I never got one of those, but maybe they only started in the 90s.


http://i97.photobucket.com/albums/l220/girljock007/armyachievement.jpg

http://i97.photobucket.com/albums/l220/girljock007/usafACHIEVEMENT.jpg

Rock Ape
9/25/2011 4:02pm,
Bump.. for my intention to complete this project.

Novarg
9/28/2011 5:51pm,
4th one(Kyokushin) is a fake.
Ok, I can believe that they used Sosai Oyamas' signature, but that they used term Tezuka Group 5 years before it appeared?

http://www.ektg.be/site/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=52&Itemid=2
quote:
"Other groups include the "Tezuka" IKO Group ... which split out in 2000"

Rock Ape
9/28/2011 5:54pm,
Thanks for the info mate

Oh and welcome to Bullshido. It's customary (and a good idea) for you to post an introduction into the Noobietown forum (http://www.bullshido.net/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=64). I'd suggest that might be your next step.