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EndDe
1/07/2011 10:58pm,
I was on youtube and saw a video of Justin Garcia giving a BB to a long time student Chris Lothian(seen here YouTube - Chris Lothian becomes Master Chim's FIRST BLACK BELT!!!! (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k-SdQo75ROs) ). And I'm not going to lie I was confused, I know people who know Lothian and they agree he is skilled enough for the promotion my confusion comes from who promoted him. Justin Garcia(seen in this video YouTube - ChimChim gets his Black Belt (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sn3CpSh9vJk) ) was promoted 4 years ago which means hes only a first degree BB. Why didn't he ask his master Rob Kahn to promote him? But looking further into the matter Rob Kahn is only 2nd degree and hes promoted 4 Black Belts. Am I misinformed? Is tradition relevant anymore? Its a question about the rules not skill level of those awarded or motives of the instructors.

JordanT
1/07/2011 11:17pm,
**** that ****. I saw a 15 year old blue belt today. Who cares? I think we can get along just fine without obscure regulations from Brazil fucking things up. These are the same people making up tournament rules on the fly and talking about "mata leo with foot". I'll take my BJJ without that mess.

It is Fake
1/08/2011 12:49pm,
?????

What are you talking about anyway OP? BJJ and other arts do not always promote in the same manner. Heck we already know many arts don't have the same quality control as BJJ.


Looking at a few orgs:

IBJJF:

FOURTH CHAPTER

Instructors allowed to give grades

The membership form of an athlete graded in the following belts: grey, yellow, orange, green, blue, purple and brown must be signed by a black belt instructor who is certified by the IBJJF (with the exception of a few countries – fifth chapter)

The membership form of an athlete graded black belt must be signed by a black belt instructor no lower than 2nd degree who is certified by the IBJJF.


Then again, many school follow their own programs as many BJJers say the higher ranks are about time served. The dude, according to what I saw, trained BJJ and competed for 9 years. They say it takes about 10 years to get a BJJ BB in the states. Yes there are some variances.

WhiteShark
1/08/2011 7:06pm,
Is the OP serious? You posted videos of two CLEARLY black belt level BJJ players getting their black belts. Where is the confusion?

It is Fake
1/08/2011 7:09pm,
Yes, he was serious he originally posted it in MABS. This is the "tradition" without any historical research. Better known as McDojo tradition.

EndDe
1/08/2011 7:15pm,
Is the OP serious? You posted videos of two CLEARLY black belt level BJJ players getting their black belts. Where is the confusion?
My confusion is about the rules. I'm not in anyway saying or implying that they don't deserve the belts. It's my understanding that at third degree is when you're allowed to promote students to black belt. If you feel a student is at BB level and is deserving of a promotion, you're suppose to get your instructor to promote said student if you are not a third degree. Is this rule relevant anymore?

JordanT
1/08/2011 7:17pm,
The OPs complaint isn't about the recipient, but about the guys GIVING rank when their degree level is too low.

JordanT
1/08/2011 7:18pm,
The federation is a joke, lol.

It is Fake
1/08/2011 7:23pm,
My confusion is about the rules. I'm not in anyway saying or implying that they don't deserve the belts. It's my understanding that at third degree is when you're allowed to promote students to black belt. If you feel a student is at BB level and is deserving of a promotion, you're suppose to get your instructor to promote said student if you are not a third degree. Is this rule relevant anymore?Link to where there is a traditional rule concerning BB Rank and promotion abilities?

EndDe
1/08/2011 7:33pm,
Link to where there is a traditional rule concerning BB Rank and promotion abilities?
http://www.badmonkeyfightshop.com/Jiu-Jitsu-Belt-Guide-s/204.htm

http://www.ibjjf.org/graduation.htm

FOURTH CHAPTER
Instructors allowed to give grades
The membership form of an athlete graded in the following belts: grey, yellow, orange, green, blue, purple and brown must be signed by a black belt instructor who is certified by the IBJJF (with the exception of a few countries fifth chapter)
The membership form of an athlete graded black belt must be signed by a black belt instructor no lower than 2nd degree who is certified by the IBJJF.

CrackFox
1/08/2011 7:41pm,
The BJJ guys, they don't really give a **** about federations. That's why they always ask who you got your belt off, not where it's registered.

It's pretty different to the way we'd do it in judo, but it seems to work pretty well for them. Hell there's other arts with very strict certification processes that actually do a **** job of keeping the quality up.

It is Fake
1/08/2011 8:09pm,
http://www.badmonkeyfightshop.com/Jiu-Jitsu-Belt-Guide-s/204.htm

http://www.ibjjf.org/graduation.htm

FOURTH CHAPTER
Instructors allowed to give grades
The membership form of an athlete graded in the following belts: grey, yellow, orange, green, blue, purple and brown must be signed by a black belt instructor who is certified by the IBJJF (with the exception of a few countries – fifth chapter)
The membership form of an athlete graded black belt must be signed by a black belt instructor no lower than 2nd degree who is certified by the IBJJF.
Did you miss what I wrote at the bottom of my post?
Did you miss what JordanT just said?
Did you notice you were saying 3rd degree when you quoted my post?

Let me be more specific.


It's my understanding that at third degree is when you're allowed to promote students to black belt. If you feel a student is at BB level and is deserving of a promotion, you're suppose to get your instructor to promote said student if you are not a third degree. Is this rule relevant anymore?

I am asking for a link to this rule.

As to your post:

The membership form of an athlete graded in the following belts: grey, yellow, orange, green, blue, purple and brown must be signed by a black belt instructor who is certified by the IBJJF (with the exception of a few countries – fifth chapter)Yep, that is saying grading is allowed by a 1st degree Black Belt up to Brown.




The membership form of an athlete graded black belt must be signed by a black belt instructor no lower than 2nd degree who is certified by the IBJJF. Notice, it says it must be signed it states nothing about who or what rank is involved in the promotion. They probably do mean 2nd and it still is less than your claimed "tradition."

Edited to add:
IbJJF has jurisdiction only on affiliated gym so, it really means nothing.

JordanT
1/08/2011 10:14pm,
What bothers me about the scenario is that the federation is in the middle of a pretty major power grab. The expansion of the tournament circuit to include no-gi contests is pretty dire in my eyes as its a direct attack on the versatility of jiujitsu. It used to be such that to play that game you had to actually learn to submission grapple. Now you can throw that out the window and be the no-gi world champion without expanding your game.

To further expand their jurisdiction, they're requiring all black belts to be members to compete at mundials. Not cool.

Ciderbone
1/09/2011 4:18am,
A lot of the federation stuff comes down to $$$.

WhiteShark
1/09/2011 7:19am,
Let's make this simpler. No, the tradition you are talking about is not relevant anymore if it ever was.


Edit: Rab Kahn posts here so if he feels like it he might log on and tell you he doesn't care that his guys are promoting blacks.

It is Fake
1/09/2011 9:52am,
Let's make this simpler. No, the tradition you are talking about is not relevant anymore if it ever was.
Exactly. Every art I practiced and some I didn't had different rank requirements for instructing and grading. That's why I asked for a link. I have never heard a set in stone rule that concerned ALL arts.