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DCM Fighter
11/15/2002 7:38am,
I finally went to a Krav Maga school here in AZ. I was hoping to at least see them train or something, or get a free class and maybe spar some guys but they wouldn't even let me in the training area. In the front they had like a mini store with pants, shirts and everything else you can think of with the krav maga logo on it. I can't quite remember; just glanced quickly at it all. I talked to this woman who told me how they trained for real fighting and stuff; I had to hold back my laughter. But I still would like to spar to see for myself. But I couldn't get a free lesson. Your options are:

One trial class that costs you 20 dollars, or a one year contract for 85 dollars a month (but it's unlimited training) plus an up front fee of 144.00, but that they were having a deal and that the fee was only 50.00. Get this. They don't have you pay monthly; they debt your checking account. That seemed a little strange to me, but all this newer electronic stuff, I guess, is catching on with newer MA schools.

I talked to a friend in my DCM class tonight who took the one class. He said it was about 3 hours of hitting focus mits, bag work, sit ups, push ups, etc, and I think a little actual training in techniques. I don't think I want to pay them just to make me work out. He did say though that he thought they were good fighters. I'd like to see for myself though. I agree 100% that getting in shape is excellent for your overall fighting ability, but I'd rather work on techniques and stratagies in class, and work out on my own time. I'm still debating if I should pay the 20 and see what happens.

guest
11/15/2002 8:01am,
The place might be bad but the system done right is actually quite good and among the very viable and logical ones. I've only heard good things about it.

http://www.getbig.dk/pics/elephant.gif

DCM Fighter
11/15/2002 8:37am,
I've heard good things about it too, but what I've seen is a different story. The book I have of their weapon defenses are pretty unrealistic. The best stuff is their gun and stick disarms; some of them are pretty good. Their knife disarms though will get you killed by someone who actually knows what they're doing. Luckily for krav maga guys there aren't that many good knife fighters out there or they'd be dead. I've got an older book on krav maga called Fighting Fit, that shows some techniques. 99% of the techniques are out of this world.

oce
11/15/2002 9:06am,
The IDF seems to like it.

Blad3
11/15/2002 1:02pm,
Most krav Maga schools are supposed to be similar to light kickboxing schools, but with more intense training (from what I;ve heard).

Some might have fullcontact sparring etc, but it will closely resemble MT I should think. Not the same as the stuff they use in israel or whatever: seems like an obvious marketing ploy.

You should pay the $20, just so you can see how it is.

KravGuy
11/15/2002 1:34pm,
Krav Maga is the real deal. The problem is not with the system but with the newer schools. Most of the schools have just recently been certified to teach and don't have enough experience to give a good indication of what Krav Maga is all about.

As far as knife defenses go, don't rely solely on a book. From my understanding, there are some out of date pieces in the book. If you have doubts about any of the techniques, there are some experienced Krav practioners on the kravmaga.com forum that are more than willing to discuss techniques with you.

LAWPILOT
11/15/2002 3:16pm,
I train in Krav Maga once a week to supplement my TKD training....I have found the training to be very beneficial. I like the instructor's philosophy. You don't stop until the guy is beat down. We train pretty hard....I don't come out of my TKD classes bruised and sore but I come out of the Krav Maga classes dinged up.

I do think we spend a little too much time on conditioning and not enough time on actual technique. I think this comes from trying to attract more women for the "aerobic" workout they offer.

The gun defenses are good....I like them and believe they will work. In 20 years on the street, I have had 3 guns and 2 knives pulled on me at close range. (By close range, I mean not enough time to draw my weapon without getting cut or shot....had to go empty hand) I do not really like the knife defensives taught. For me they are too technical and complicated but maybe it's just the instructor.

Be careful where you train...The ATA and Krav Maga signed a deal last year that allows ATA schools to teach Krav Maga. The ATA instructor attends a 1 week seminar to get his level 1 certification...I think that after 3 seminars they become fully certified. After only 3 certification seminars I don't know how qualified the person would be to teach..Not very in my opinion. Check to see if the instructor actually came up through the ranks in a Krav Maga school of if they went to one of these quickie seminars.

Rampar
11/15/2002 5:21pm,
It's true that many of the schools need to get through the third phase of training (Level 3, Green Belt) and they will.(It's still a very new program here) And Krav is the same here as in Israel, fortunatley for Americans we have the luxury of training it as a curriculum based program rather than in a boot camp setting.

As far as school policies, thats up to them. Believe me, if they passed the phase training they are qualified to teach no matter what their style is. Its is also true that there isn't a lot of techniques but its about being simple and extremely agressive. Krav needs to create a mind set of going 0-60 when danger is immenent, training from a point of disadvantage and making the less agressive into somewhat of a force in order to go home safe. REMEMBER, it's mostly self defense.

Also in Level 1 (remember we have all been there) a lot of time is devoted to basics. 90% of people who walk through the door have no MA experience and have never been in an altercation. You will see funky techniques from stance to movement and it has to be corrected before going on. IE; Elbows in when throwing punches. Not only in order not to telegraph but in higher levels, so it doesn't get blown off in a gun defense or shattered during a stick defense. As far as weapon defenses, over 200 law enforcement agencies nationwide think they are great and there are numerous testimonies of how Krav has helped them in the line of duty. There are no heros, if you can get out after a few combatives, GET THE HELL OUT. S-E-L-F D-E-F-E-N-S-E.

Dufus McGoob
11/15/2002 5:28pm,
Well, for the ATA teaching Krav Maga..... They teach watered down TKD, so why not water down the KM. The instructors take a weekend seminar and walla! You can now teach KM at a ATA school. Of course, you haven't had enough experience to really know much about the system, but your a quality trained ATA instructor, so just follow this book and study up on the techniques before class. We'll call it our no-nonsense self defensem. Humm, does that mean the self defense they teach is nonsense? Sorry forgot, they don't teach self defense anymore....

The instructors don't even spar the students anymore. The last time we did spar, about a year ago, I had him backing up and was all over him. I don't know what he expected. There were a few assistant instructors that did spar the adult students and were much better. Ah, here I go again.

Dufus

KMgurl
11/15/2002 6:52pm,
I have been taking Krav Maga for 9 months and I couldnt be happier with the training i recieve. I am a woman and the "aerobic" workout they had to offer did not draw me in...it was the agrresive, straight to the point fighting you learn. My son is in Kenpo and my inlaws are in TKD, and to be honest they both suck. It will not defend anyone in a real encounter.
I don't understand why they wouldnt let you atleast watch the class. Our school always has someone try the class (no fee) first before joining it and occasionally they attend a few times before they actually join.
However, alot of schools are ran different so I would suggest paying the fee and try it.
In the level one classes they have to cover the basics before moving on, however that does include learning the actual self defenses. This includes choke holds (front, back, side, front with some one pushing you down, back with someone pushing you down), headlocks, simple ground work.
As you get to the next levels you move on to more advanced ground work, weapons defense, more advanced self defenses, being blind folded while being attacked, class being held at night in the parking lot and going through attacks, learining to absorb hits, contact sparring and more
Rampar is correct in saying you have to go from passive to agressive in a second and Krav trains in doing that.
I will run you through a couple of our level one day to day drills:

You are partnered with someone, one of you gets on the floor in the middle of the room, face down, eyes closed hands behind your back, and feet crossed (like your bound)
So basically you have a group of people in the middle of the floor bound
The partners stand in a big circle around the group with focus mitts
Instructor walks around talking about how someone just attacked one of your parents, children, spouse and what are you gonna do about it.
He yells NOW and you run find your partner and beat the hell out of the mitts for one minute
Original person goes back to the middle of the floor and starts doing pushups with his eyes closed, instructor walking around you laying out the scenerio, while your partner moves to another part of the room
He yells and you run and find your partner proceeding to beat the bag for a minute
Repeat this 2 more times.

Another drill:
You have 2 partners, both of them have kick shields, one of them is labeled A on one side of the room one is labeled B on the other side...you are in the middle
Instructor yells B and you run to them and knee the shield
Instructor yells A you run and and beat the other shield...
Instructor continuously switches it up for another 2 minutes

Just like any art, not everything is for everyone...so what might be great to me wont be great to you...just try it.

Michael
11/15/2002 7:12pm,
Well guys don't get mad at me but if I ragged on one person I've got to be fair. You're coming in here as newbies doing what I consider propaganda self-promotion. Welcome here anyway.

That being said I've seen both side of the fence when it comes to Krav Maga. Some stuff I raise my eyebrows at thinking what the hell do you think you're doing? Others were more practical. Overall in my mental statistic book I have to say that 75% of what I've seen is excellent. Good advice good training. Every single instructor I have met (from Isreal) is great and opened minded. I have never trained in Krav Maga directly. Most of the stuff I've seen is a "been there, teach that". Which, to me, re-enforces some of my teaching techniques as viable. So if your going to train if Krav Maga go for it.

Two guys walk into a bar....ouch that's gotta hurt.

DCM Fighter
11/15/2002 7:35pm,
Thanks for the input everyone. I might go ahead and see what they have me do. I hope not a lot of working out. I want to learn their techniques.

KravGuy
11/15/2002 8:27pm,
DCM, I doubt you will learn their 'techniques'. Most of the stuff in the beginning deals with a state of mind (instantly going from passive to aggressive). These drills will feel more like a workout than learning techniques. Also, like someone has said earlier, it's basic stuff in the beginning.

Hopefully the instructor/instruction is good where you go to. It's not anything that is ground breaking new but I think it's one of the few styles that covers self-defense, fighting, weapon defenses, ground work and does it from as much a realistic scenerio as possible.

Blad3
11/15/2002 8:42pm,
is there full contact sparring..

DCM Fighter
11/15/2002 9:11pm,
There is a kickboxing class but I won't be allowed to do it for a while. If all I'll do is 'learn' an aggressive mindset I don't think I'll waste my money if it's something I can do already.

KMgurl
11/15/2002 10:38pm,
sparring generally starts in the second level...however, you learn the basics that lead up to full contact sparring in level 1.