View Full Version : Not quite a McDojo

11/14/2002 11:24pm,
I know its probably not but it looks like a lot of them (I originally posted this on another thread):

What about the Gracie's G.R.A.P.L.E. (http://www.gracieacademy.com/academy/graple.shtml)program. Which is for LEOs?

WTF is this site. I am totally in awe of the gracie academy and their ability to train everyone for everything, particularly flight stewardesses, all for a small fee and small time commitment.

The Gracies have indeed refined an extremely effective fighting system from jjj but Jesus this site bugs me!

One to two day seminars to prevent rape! Learn to block punches, resist being pushed or pulled then buy the 60min video. Even better: none other than that authority, actress Rene Russo, endorses the tape and program.

No disrespect to the fighting abilities of the Gracies but that site shows that people always go toward the money (which is why mcdojos abound).

The one redeeming thing about the site (besides the nice fleece vests, LMAO) is that the training rates are clearly posted and its apparent you're not going to train with the big name gracies unless you pay more. While they get credit for the upfront nature of it all the prices are astounding. I think I could hire Lenox Lewis as a bodyguard for the cost of training my current 7 hours every week for a year.

Sorry about the site Peedee.

gong sau
11/15/2002 12:59am,
Interesting that they make the distinction that Adult group classes are "sport Jiu-Jitsu as used in competition", while the private lessons are "self-defense".

"You lose, Mr. Kwan."

11/15/2002 2:04am,
Man.....I don't mind paying a higher price for quality training, but damn.....

11/15/2002 6:26am,

their prices are outrageous.

Today impossible, Tomarrow Possible
Grand Master H.U. Lee

11/15/2002 6:30am,
Dear god...that is some money...

11/15/2002 6:34am,
it is allot of meny isnt it.

wow i have seen some dojos charge 90 a month ofr unlimited classes but like 200 for only twice aweek.

Today impossible, Tomarrow Possible
Grand Master H.U. Lee

11/15/2002 6:51am,
I didn't see any prices.....

Two guys walk into a bar....ouch that's gotta hurt.

11/15/2002 6:58am,

Today impossible, Tomarrow Possible
Grand Master H.U. Lee

DCM Fighter
11/17/2002 4:51am,
I've always thought it was rediculas that the Gracies taught ground fighting to law enforcment. They even said on their site that suspects often go for the officer's weapon while on the ground. I know they can teach you how to stop that, but why take chances? Plus the suspect could have some weapon and seriously injure or kill the officer. It's easy to loose sight of someone hands while on the ground; they could grab a knife or gun and use it. It'd be better to work on standing or grappling defense and getting distance to get out the firearm.

I couldn't find any pricing for the G.R.A.P.L.E. program but I saw all the other class prices. That's crazy. A half hour class for 60-75 dollars!

11/17/2002 9:01am,
yea really
i second that motion

Today impossible, Tomarrow Possible
Grand Master H.U. Lee

11/17/2002 2:30pm,
DCM...you're right. Most of the time when an officer ends up on the ground in a fight, the suspect goes for the officer's weapon. Officers are trained when this happens, to lock the weapon in the holster using either one or both hands.....Well, if you are using one or both hands to lock the weapon in the holster....How many hands does that leave you to fight the suspect.

Many police defensive tactics instructors do not teach ground fighting at all...They simply tell the officers not to go to the ground....How stupid is that??? I mean the officer may not intend to go to the ground but what happens if the suspect takes you down or you trip and fall and get mounted?

Ideally, in dealing with a suspect you want to maintain what is referred to as a "survival gap". This is a distance of at least 4 - 6 feet. You have to be close enough to talk with the suspect and deal with him but far enough to react if he comes at you.

At only 4 - 6 feet if someone comes at you there is still not much time to react....That is where constant and consistant training comes in....Again the shortfall here is so many officers have no skills on the ground....If the officer is taken to the ground he must be able to effectively fight, regain his footing, create distance and hopefully go to an intermediate weapon like a baton or pepper spray or his firearm, if the situation warrants the use of deadly force.

The defensive tactics program my agency uses had absoultely no ground fighting in it....It teaches kicks, punches, wrist locks and arm bars...I was finally allowed to add in ground fighting to teach the officers how to escape and create the distance they need.....I was able to show them the need in one simple way....During training, I would take the officer to the ground and may a play for his weapon. The officer would do as trained and lock the weapon in the holster....This really limits his ability to fight. I would then work for and apply a choke... Let me tell you....When you put a choke on and they feel like they are going out, they let go of the weapon and try to break the choke. Once they let go of the weapon, poof, I got it.

While it's true the officer does not want to be on the ground. He has to have some ground fighting skills or when the fight goes to the ground he is toast.

I think I'll try to get in touch with these guys to see exactly what their teaching to LE guys.

11/17/2002 8:11pm,
Quick question.....I'm doing some research at work today. I talked to a guy with the U.S. Marshals Service. He is one of their lead DT instructors. He has been to the Gracie course and said it is a decent ground fighting course but really not all that great for law enforcement. He said they focus alot on getting in the mount, pinning the guy in some sort of way that prevents him from getting your weapon (he tried to explan it but it got complicated) and waiting for backup....Well sometimes there may be no backup and you need to finish th fight.....He did say they teach a really good way of getting off the ground back to a standing position.

This guy has attended schools put on by the SEALS, SF, LAPD, the Gracies and others.....He said out of all the schools he has been to Frank Shamrock put on the best one for Law Enforcement applications.

I know who Frank Shamrock is....basically. Does anyone here have any experience with any of his schools or seminars?

I am looking at attending some additional training to help supplement my teaching material....Just looking for the best bang for the buck.