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realjanuary
11/26/2010 12:28pm,
In my capacity as captain of a college aikido club I got an e-mail asking to help with a "rape self defence class" by a group on campus, they're runnig a "rape awareness week".

I replied with the following:

"
Matthew

Can I offer some suggestions regarding the "rape self defence training" you mentioned to in your e-mail.

1 prevention is better than cure
I presume there will be other events planned during the week dealing with avoiding rape.

2 training to throw and strike competently takes much training
Participants may get a false sense of security rather than any real skill if it's a one off class. You'll be aware of this from your own training.

3 being ready to act from a position of failure
Once avoidance has failed potential victims should still have options. Escapes from a prone position that do not depend on pain compliance are high priority. I have a tiny amount of experience in ground grappling/newaza from training outside of aikido but would suggest you talk to the judo club. Of the clubs on campus judo will have the most experience in this type of training.

4 goals and resources
If you had any more details about when/where/how may participants/etc. I may be able to give you more help

Hope this helps.

I look forward to helping you in any capacity I can,

realjanuary

"
(names changed in e-mail)

Is there anything else I should do to stop a potential rex-kwon-do class causing more harm than good?

Chili Pepper
11/26/2010 12:58pm,
Your #3 is probably the most important part. I've said this before in other venues, but the idea that the rapist is some guy who comes looming out of the darkness, screaming "I am a rapist!" just ain't going to happen. Unfortunately, so much of what's out there seems to work with this premise, I guess because it's the most in keeping with the Hollywood ideal.

Nah, more likely a college student is going to find herself in a date-rape situation where she's already sitting on a couch or whatever, and already in physical contact with the guy, and things get out of hand. She won't be able to throw punches, or kicks, and will soon find herself underneath a guy who out-strengths and out-masses her.

Judo and BJJ for the win.

Sam Browning
11/26/2010 1:16pm,
http://www.campuspeak.com/speakers/kardian/

Steve Kardian does a lot of campus seminars and I highly recommend him. He teaches BJJ and is a former police officer specializing in sex crimes.

Sam Browning
11/26/2010 1:28pm,
http://www.nononsenseselfdefense.com/avoid_rape.htm

http://www.nononsenseselfdefense.com/profile.html

are good resources. Incidently I disagree with Marc on a number of his points, but at least he's in the ball park.

dizzie56
11/26/2010 2:21pm,
I think number is 2 is also key. Learning to throw a punch or kick doesnt just happen over night. Even if it did, the reality of the situation would be that they were allready to close to do to much damage or it would be like throwing a pea against a brick wall on a larger guy that has adrenalin runnin thru him like crazy at that point. Having somebody take a "self-defense" class that is a 3 hour course max on a weeknight wit a fatty teacher that tells somebody all they have to do is "go for the eyes/balls/throat/whatever" is so misleading its not funny and it would/does give people a false sence of security in people thinking they have this great ability that is not there.

realjanuary
11/26/2010 5:25pm,
Thanks for the help, I'll pass the info on. If any hilarity ensues I'll let you guys know.

I've lost hours on McYoung's site before reading one linked article after another. It's hard to know when to stop, there's so much good stuff.

ps the "mentioned to in your e-mail" is where I deleted the club secretary's name and forgot to put in a fake name.

Uglybugly
11/26/2010 6:10pm,
bjj probably.. I assume that most rapes happens on the ground. Bjj is probably the martial art that you can get skills in fastest. 6 months of bjj and even girls should have the advantage on the ground vs unskilled men. They still need a decent instructor, time and alot of proper training..

goodlun
11/26/2010 6:18pm,
#2 is huge. To go with it the fact that there are no silver bullet techniques. Eye gouges, trachea crushes, foot stomps, groin hits are very popular with this type of training. They simply need to be flat out told they need more then one day of training when it comes down to a physical confrontation.

judoka_uk
11/26/2010 6:51pm,
You did the right thing.

Point number 2 is why I have consistently refused to do self-defence classes at my university or to market our club with any reference to self-defence.

Once when I had some freshers ask about self-defence I told them the way to the campus running track, they were quite surprised. Seeing as the Aikdio clubs, Jitsu club etc... on the stands next to us had, as usual, been promising them steroid-fuelled body builder killing powers in 5 lessons. I then went on to tell them that all those martial arts weren't going to teach them how to defend themselves if they only train once a week for a few months and nor will Judo. The best thing they can do is not get drunk and walk home on their own and not hang around in dodgy parts of town.

Also to be honest with you unless the local Judo club has unusually good newaza instruction they probably aren't going to be very good at teaching guard sweeps or escapes back to the feet. Your average Judo club tends to be very weak at teaching those kind of techniques.

I would recommend getting in touch with the president of the Judo club and going to speak to these people in person, if you present a united front and convince them that there's very little either of you could do in a few lessosn and that any martial arts club which tells them they could is conning them and risking women getting raped. Getting two different martial arts clubs telling them might jolt them to their sense.

Also send them the Matt Thornton aliveness videos.

PDA
11/26/2010 7:03pm,
Allot of women that do not train strikes ect...regularly already are unlikely to start just to avoid rape.
I have read that sometimes women freeze and do not fight back , i have also read that sometimes women put up a fight and the attacker flees.
Giving a women the confidence to fight back in any way if she perhaps would not do so is not necessarily a bad thing.
At the same time I understand you guys not wanting to give a false sense in case she incurs increased violence upon herself.
Its a tuff one.

judoka_uk
11/26/2010 7:11pm,
At the same time I understand you guys not wanting to give a false sense in case she incurs increased violence upon herself.
Its a tuff one.
My view is, there is nothing I can teach her that will guarantee she won't get raped. What if there's a knife involved, she's too drunk to fight back, someone's spiked her drink, there's multiple attackers?

I wouldn't be able to live with myself if I had convinced someone they were safe from rape because of the training I offered them and then because of the overconfidence or lack of basic precautions because of the training they became a victim.

I really have a serious problem with people who teach bullshit courses as rape or other sexual assault defence courses and I take every opportunity to call them on their bullshit.

goodlun
11/26/2010 7:17pm,
http://www.hulu.com/watch/126321/fight-science-fighting-back?c=News-and-Information/Documentary-and-Biography#s-p1-so-i0

This was ultra painful when I watched it.

PDA
11/26/2010 7:30pm,
My view is, there is nothing I can teach her that will guarantee she won't get raped. What if there's a knife involved, she's too drunk to fight back, someone's spiked her drink, there's multiple attackers?

I wouldn't be able to live with myself if I had convinced someone they were safe from rape because of the training I offered them and then because of the overconfidence or lack of basic precautions because of the training they became a victim.

I really have a serious problem with people who teach bullshit courses as rape or other sexual assault defence courses and I take every opportunity to call them on their bullshit.


I re-read your original post, i understand a bit better.
Its not really a problem martial arts can solve.
There are thousands of things people can do to stop putting themselves in vulnerable positions which would reduce the crime allot more than people teaching 1 day courses on palm strikes to the nose.

Larus marinus
11/26/2010 7:59pm,
I re-read your original post, i understand a bit better.
Its not really a problem martial arts can solve.
There are thousands of things people can do to stop putting themselves in vulnerable positions which would reduce the crime allot more than people teaching 1 day courses on palm strikes to the nose.

Yeah - but what teen would seriously take anything useful from a course where some guy at the front was basically telling them that they should avoid high-risk behaviour - when in their heads, one of the reasons that they just left home to go to college/uni was so that they could go crazy and indulge in all the high-risk behaviour that their parents forbade them from?

I might be making something of a sweeping generalization here - there are plenty of kids who don't go to college to do that, and don't do that... but I don't suppose that those would really be the target audience.

wetware
11/26/2010 8:04pm,
My view is, there is nothing I can teach her that will guarantee she won't get raped. What if there's a knife involved, she's too drunk to fight back, someone's spiked her drink, there's multiple attackers?

Situational Awareness.

goodlun
11/26/2010 8:05pm,
Situational Awareness.
From an 18-22 year old college kid?
had to add college as the military is full of situationally aware young people.