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understanding
7/23/2010 1:51am,
hey new to this website and stuff but hope u still check out this post alltho so long ago how is this school going? ive been looking at it it seems interesting

Southpaw
7/23/2010 8:09am,
The fact that you are going to such a length to show that it is not a Mcdojo is a red flag. It's like you are trying to convince yourself.

This is funny too.




The school has no trophies whatsoever. The uniform is a yellow t-shirt with the school logo (which the Shifu really emphasizes not wearing outside of class as he is terrified of someone seeming like they are advertising), dark grey athletic pants, and athletic shoes.

Because what business owner wants free advertising?

More likely he doesn't want you to wear the shirt outside of class so that you don't get the **** kicked out of you and realize that you aren't really learning how to fight. Just guessing here...

If you are interested in Boulder school recommendation, let me know as I have a buddy who runs a Relson Gracie school in that area.

Scott Larson
7/23/2010 1:19pm,
Its not a McDojo because it is a 501c-3 non-profit. That isn't to say that its a good school or a bad one.

From the website and your comments, its sounds alright, but without video, its hard to say if they are any good or not.

Are there any other specific questions that you have? What are your goals? If its getting you in shape, its probably a good idea to keep going unless you notice anything wrong.

Faustaff
10/26/2010 5:55pm,
First off, I know Sifu Solow and can say that he is a genuinely nice guy who has great skills. He offers a traditional Chinese atmosphere for training wherein the school operates as a family. And I'm not a student of his; I am a fellow kung fu teacher in the Boulder area and am unaffiliated with him.

Second, the list you've so arduously gone through to determine whether the school is a McDojo has a number of overbroad criteria. A McDojo is a corporate chain school with low quality instruction and high turnover rates. Period. Anything else is just the author's personal preferences regarding how a school should be run. Apparently the author of Bullshido's guide has some very specific ideas about what he or she likes in a school. That's fine, but having policies that disagree with the author does not make a school a McDojo. It might make it a bad school or a weak style, but a McDojo is a specific term and should be used as such.

For example, teaching life-skills is a foundational part of Chinese martial arts, and has been for a very long time. Teaching students about qi (which is a concept for feeling energy and movement in the body, not a magical force), and using deep stances are both part of traditional Chinese martial arts training, and have been for a very long time. Seeing such things in a curriculum does not make a school a McDojo, it just means that you aren't at a modern MMA school. If that's what you want, go to one.

Bottom line, don't over-analyze what you are studying just because you read something on the internet. There's far more garbage on the internet than truth regarding martial arts, from all sides. If you're really concerned about the quality of what you're learning, go around to a bunch of other schools and try their classes. It will become apparent after 5 school visits or so whether your school measures up.

It is Fake
10/26/2010 6:16pm,
Second, the list you've so arduously gone through to determine whether the school is a McDojo has a number of overbroad criteria. A McDojo is a corporate chain school with low quality instruction and high turnover rates. Period. Anything else is just the author's personal preferences regarding how a school should be run. Apparently the author of Bullshido's guide has some very specific ideas about what he or she likes in a school. That's fine, but having policies that disagree with the author does not make a school a McDojo. It might make it a bad school or a weak style, but a McDojo is a specific term and should be used as such.You do know who coined the term McDojo right? This website. So, no, what you have done is change the meaning of "McDojo" to fit your own personal definition. That entire article was approved and based off the websites owners definition and creation of the term McDojo.



For example, teaching life-skills is a foundational part of Chinese martial arts, and has been for a very long time. Teaching students about qi (which is a concept for feeling energy and movement in the body, not a magical force), and using deep stances are both part of traditional Chinese martial arts training, and have been for a very long time. Seeing such things in a curriculum does not make a school a McDojo, it just means that you aren't at a modern MMA school. If that's what you want, go to one.

No one says it can't be a part of CMA but, you might want to do more research. CMAs were initially fighting arts used for battle and warfare not teaching life skills in the manner you are describing.




Bottom line, don't over-analyze what you are studying just because you read something on the internet. There's far more garbage on the internet than truth regarding martial arts, from all sides. If you're really concerned about the quality of what you're learning, go around to a bunch of other schools and try their classes. It will become apparent after 5 school visits or so whether your school measures up.Exactly, which could be the reason the one post wonder showed up. Then again, the argument "garbage on the internet" is poor because, there is a ton of FACTUAL information to be found about Martial Arts if you know where to look. Also, your rant was misdirected. Who said it was a McDojo or did you get angry and not read the thread?

Faustaff
10/26/2010 7:57pm,
Thanks for the comments. I've been in the martial arts world since 1989. I can guarantee you, this website did not "coin the term." It's been in use since before the popularization of the internet.

I am neither angry nor ranting. I do not have a stake in whether or not the Sifu in question runs a McDojo. Rather, I feel that the criteria on the list have attached unrelated judgments to the term, and want to see it used properly, regardless of the outcome. Calling a school a McDojo because it teaches morality and a code of behavior is simply incorrect, regardless of the substantive merit of teaching such things. You call a school a McDojo because it pumps out huge numbers of largely unskilled practitioners and is motivated primarily by profit rather than quality of instruction.

It is Fake
10/26/2010 10:46pm,
Thanks for the comments. I've been in the martial arts world since 1989. I can guarantee you, this website did not "coin the term." It's been in use since before the popularization of the internet. I've been in since 1985 since we are throwing numbers around. You are right as I am thinking of "bullshido" morphed from "Bullshito." Still, I can guarantee you that you didn't read the actual article. You read the op's cherry picked statements.

Copy of the article:

2) WHAT IS A MCDOJO, WHAT IS BULLSHIDO?

Here at Bullshido.net we use the term "McDojo" describe a school in which the quality of martial arts instruction and training is watered down by the instructor in order to make money. Similarly a McDojo may be occasionally run by someone who is sincere but is the product of bad training and a martial arts franchise approach. "Bullshido" is bad behavior, typically involving deception that a martial arts instructor does, frequently at a martial arts school, which is very often a McDojo.

To provide obvious examples, if a school tests people for a black belt within a year after they start this art, they are obviously dropping their grading standards and are a McDojo. If your martial arts instructor is insisting he can trace his martial arts lineage back 4,000 years or that he teaches secret special forces hand to hand combat techniques you are probably witnessing Bullshido which is a substantial deception or untruth in a martial arts context. Either is a compelling reason to avoid training at this school.




I am neither angry nor ranting. I do not have a stake in whether or not the Sifu in question runs a McDojo. Rather, I feel that the criteria on the list have attached unrelated judgments to the term, and want to see it used properly, regardless of the outcome.It is used properly not my fault the Op and you choose to cherry pick your argument.


Calling a school a McDojo because it teaches morality and a code of behavior is simply incorrect, regardless of the substantive merit of teaching such things.

Now, if you actually read the article you'd have never built this strawman argument.






You call a school a McDojo because it pumps out huge numbers of largely unskilled practitioners and is motivated primarily by profit rather than quality of instruction.No, you don't because many school are motivated by profit. That is why there is a list of things, that are taken in totality, before a school is called a McDojo.

You'd know this if you actually read the article.

You know, the section that starts:


WARNING SIGNS THAT A SCHOOL HAS LOW TRAINING STANDARDS OR IS A MCDOJO.

Nowhere does it say definitive or only one makes a school a McDojo.


Culled:
Kung Fu in Boulder (NOT Colorado Shao-lin Do) - No BS MMA and Martial Arts (http://www.bullshido.net/forums/showthread.php?t=87409)

Faustaff
10/26/2010 11:21pm,
Sigh. I cannot help but feel that you are more interested in lecturing me than having a civil conversation in which reasonable people might disagree about the precise definitions of a McDojo. I have made my points above quite clearly, and am not interested in lowering this discussion to a shouting match. I will not reply further. Peace, and happy training.

It is Fake
10/26/2010 11:31pm,
Sigh. I cannot help but feel that you are more interested in lecturing me than having a civil conversation in which reasonable people might disagree about the precise definitions of a McDojo.Saying "I have been in the martial arts world since 1989" meant you wanted to put someone in their place. You didn't want reasoned debate. Also, "Take this test with a big grain of salt" is not reasonable when, you have not read or researched the entire premise of the article.


I have made my points above quite clearly, and am not interested in lowering this discussion to a shouting match. I will not reply further. Peace, and happy training.Yes, you know the Sifu and felt you would put people in their place. Enjoy your training.

Katriona1992
10/27/2010 9:19am,
hey new to this website and stuff but hope u still check out this post alltho so long ago how is this school going? ive been looking at it it seems interesting

where is the post that everyone else is happily quoting from? Did you delete it or is it my computer's problem?

ty :)

danniboi07
10/27/2010 12:38pm,
where is the post that everyone else is happily quoting from? Did you delete it or is it my computer's problem?

ty :)

Do keep up, please. Here is the original thread.


Culled:
Kung Fu in Boulder (NOT Colorado Shao-lin Do) - No BS MMA and Martial Arts (http://www.bullshido.net/forums/showthread.php?t=87409)




Sigh. I cannot help but feel that you are more interested in lecturing me than having a civil conversation in which reasonable people might disagree about the precise definitions of a McDojo. I have made my points above quite clearly, and am not interested in lowering this discussion to a shouting match. I will not reply further. Peace, and happy training.


We're not interested in discussing the exact definition of "McDojo" and "Bullshido" as those discussion have already happened. The consensus was posted and IIF was kind enough to quote it here. For all future discussions, please refer to that post when using these terms so that everyone on this forum will know exactly what you are talking aobut.