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DCS
2/29/2004 7:55pm,
In fact there is some strange Aikido guys out there.

Cut and paste from Aikido Journal Forum:

"If Capoeira would be the best martial art, it would not had been remained in the hands of the brazilian slaves in the colonization times and only recentelly is beeingpracticed by the some people of the higher classes.
History teaches us that the best things end up always in the hands of the elite.If not they keep in the lower classes.
I prefer Aikido that is based in what was developed inside of the aristocratic Aizu Clan in feudal Japan.
When one sees a demonstration of capoeira and get impressed, it is because of the high quality of the practicioners.Some, as Mario said, looks increadable. I imagine what excelent sort of aikidoists they would become if they would dedicate to the art of Aikido instead.
Capoeira gives, flexibility, harmonious movement, beautiful body, and a lot of pleasure to practice due to its musical association, but does not go behyond that.

Aikido teachers the spirit, the perception, the "ki", that is the most important aspect to develop in order to understand life, society, the universe and finally get in tune with the devine realm. The body practice is just a vehicle to this possibility.
Of course that the masses will prefer always pop music, and with as more rithym and drums beats the best. Few can grasp the importance to hear classic music and the teachings of real harmony principles that it contains once it demands refined eyes, ears, touch, and wisdon like one needs to understand and value aikido .
About self defense in a physical sense, my
final oppinion is that any martial out can be extraordinary in terms of self defense, depending on who is practicing it.
And the real secret, is spending a lot of time with it.
I am not a rich guy, and I am not part of the elite in Brazil, and I am conscious about my limitations, but I would like to
be there for sure!!!
Anyway I will prever most of the time, with rare exceptions, the classic sounds of violins that can be heard in a quite, and bucholic envirorement then the heavy metal noise of striking eletric guittars in the middle of the night, sorrounded by sweated people and flashes of coloured lights denouncing in the place , the presence of cigarretes and other not legal smokings.

Aikido is better!"

Rashomon
2/29/2004 8:17pm,
Geeze. Will someone please transcribe that into English?

Stick
2/29/2004 9:19pm,
Wow..... an ESL (english as a second language) tool.

Impressive.

The whole "the slaves wouldn't have kept it cause if it was the best it would've found its way to the elite" drivel, that's just classic. Then the "proud lineage" of aikido, oh that's a fucking riot.

My decision stands, he is a tool.

Mong
2/29/2004 10:13pm,
The guy is Brazillian - so give the English a rest. He still beats some of you native speakers.

His ideas? Well he drives many Aikidoists nuts too. Roughly translated - he likes the way Aikido makes him feel.

Stick
2/29/2004 10:23pm,
I mentioned that obiouvsly english was a second language for him, I didn't harp on it.

Trust me, what he said was far more annoying, painful, assinine, and insulting than how he said it.

If he were to say the same thing in Portugese..... and I understoud it, I'd still call him a tool..... or however you say tool in Portugese.

FingerorMoon?
3/01/2004 12:49am,
That guy is definitely into not legal smokings

Mong
3/01/2004 1:18am,
Originally posted by Dai-Tenshi
Trust me, what he said was far more annoying, painful, assinine, and insulting than how he said it.

Not to mention wrong. The guy is a typical example of a fantasy view of Aikido unchecked. He's visited Japan, he's been visited by some major instructors, but ... well like you said.

Guy Mendiola
3/01/2004 3:39am,
I would have to disagree with Aikido being better, Capoeira is more of a martial art it's sorta a dance and it revolves around the Brazilian Culture and what Capoeira is truly about, so which IMO Capoeira is much better, I have always been wondering where Aikido would fall in the striking catoegory or the grappling catoegory because don't get me wrong but Aikido mostly is base on throwdowns and wrist-lock manuevers but is that any punching,kicking, or grappling?

alex
3/01/2004 4:17am,
well aikidoka cant punch, and the cant throw, and they cant grapple. so I guess you would call it dancing, but it looks crappy as well....

as for the topic- I would be far more wary of an experienced capoeiraist than an experienced aikidoka. cap requires immense upper body strength, flexibility, timing and reflexes. aikido requires you to believe in ki.

WingChun Lawyer
3/01/2004 8:39am,
Originally posted by Dai-Tenshi

If he were to say the same thing in Portugese..... and I understoud it, I'd still call him a tool..... or however you say tool in Portugese.

Tool=instrumento or ferramenta in portuguese (but you canīt insult someone in portuguese by calling him a tool - pawn would be best).

And I agree with you guys. That imbecile is an example of all thatīs bad about aikidokas.


I am not a rich guy, and I am not part of the elite in Brazil, and I am conscious about my limitations, but I would like to

And probably racist too.

DCS
3/01/2004 11:35am,
WingChunLawyer

Off topic:
I was told by a guy from Bahia that BJJ people are mostly white and Capoeiristas mostly black or mixed.

It's a racial issue? I didn't understood that guy?

Do you can provide some info?

WingChun Lawyer
3/01/2004 12:00pm,
Originally posted by DCS
WingChunLawyer

Off topic:
I was told by a guy from Bahia that BJJ people are mostly white and Capoeiristas mostly black or mixed.

It's a racial issue? I didn't understood that guy?

Do you can provide some info?

I canīt speak for the whole of Brazil, but at least in São Paulo and Rio de Janeiro GJJers are definetely portrayed as rich, white playboys who like to pick up fights in clubs and such, and who count on dad to help them out afterwards. I met one or two of those, and unfortunately the stereotype above is mostly true.

Capoeira, among the higher classes, is mostly regarded as a nice dancing activity (which for us is mostly true, as expensive gyms only provide "dancing" capoeira, I assure you). On the other hand, capoeira is still very commonly practiced as a martial skill by poorer people (it is not uncommon to see poor kids on the streets of bad neighborhoods practicing capoeira).

Race and economic condition are very closely related in Brazil, so you could say that most of those poor boys practicing capoeira on the streets are indeed black, while you will be hard pressed to find a black GJJer. Donīt forget GJJ is expensive.

Sapiens
3/01/2004 12:53pm,
Originally posted by WingChun Lawyer
I canīt speak for the whole of Brazil, but at least in São Paulo and Rio de Janeiro GJJers are definetely portrayed as rich, white playboys who like to pick up fights in clubs and such, and who count on dad to help them out afterwards. I met one or two of those, and unfortunately the stereotype above is mostly true.

Capoeira, among the higher classes, is mostly regarded as a nice dancing activity (which for us is mostly true, as expensive gyms only provide "dancing" capoeira, I assure you). On the other hand, capoeira is still very commonly practiced as a martial skill by poorer people (it is not uncommon to see poor kids on the streets of bad neighborhoods practicing capoeira).

Race and economic condition are very closely related in Brazil, so you could say that most of those poor boys practicing capoeira on the streets are indeed black, while you will be hard pressed to find a black GJJer. Donīt forget GJJ is expensive.


Seconded

The Wastrel
3/01/2004 12:56pm,
Didn't some of the Gracies also do a little Capoeira?

WingChun Lawyer
3/01/2004 12:57pm,
Originally posted by The Wastrel
Didn't some of the Gracies also do a little Capoeira?

I wouldnīt know. I thought GJJers usually cross trained in boxing.

The Wastrel
3/01/2004 12:59pm,
I've seen one of them practicing a ginga before.