TKD Kwan Elimination!!!

[shironinja]

Tae Kwon Do was created as an amalgamation of Korean schools of fighting. Regardless of the current situation of TKD (of which you likely have your own opinion) it WAS started with good intentions.

To bring together. To simplify confusion in korean martial arts.

Each of the original schools (kwan) have influenced the current places to learn TKD -- some to more degrees than others depending on the preferences of the instructor and who they themselves learned from.

So I bring you the following kwan with a TWIST.

After reading... which of the following do you feel sounds the BEST? The WORST? Why?

1) CHUNG DO KWAN Founded by GM Lee, Won Kuk, this was the first school in Korea and was opened in 1945 in Yong Chun, Seoul. The style was called Tang Soo Do(Okinawan discipline of Karate). Their trademark technique was the side kick(Yop Chagi) and the jumping side kick. Later, in the 1960's the back side kick and jumping back side kick were also signature techniques. It is said that Chung Do Kwan fighters would always loose in the early tournaments because the yop chagi was much to slow for the roundhouse (dolyo chagi) or front kick (ap chagi).

2) MOO DUK KWAN was founded by GM Kee, Hwang later in 1945 (the Fall) also in Seoul. Moo Duk Kwan stands for "a brotherhood and school of stopping inner and outer conflict and developing virtue according to the way of the worthy hand." Some have shortened this to "Art of the knife hand." Moo Duk Kwan's signature technique was the roundhouse kick (Dolyo Chagi).

The style used was originally called Hwa Soo Do. But later GM Kee decided to to incorporate Tang Soo Do into the Hwa Soo Do. Now Moo Duk Kwan calls their art now Soo Bak Do. It is said that Ji Do Kwan/Moo Duk Kwan became the largest kwans in Korea during the late 1950's In fact, GM Hwang Kee estimated that in 1960, these two kwans constituted 70% of the Taekwondo/Tang Soo Do/ Kong Soo Do/Tae Soo Do population.

3) YUN MOO KWAN / JI DO KWAN was founded by GM Chun, Sang Sup, who disappeared during the Korean War. Yun Moo Kwan also opened in Seoul later in 1945 after Chung Do Kwan. The name was converted to Ji Do Kwan between 1953-54 after the Korean War. The name Yun Moo Kwan came from a judo school. The style was originally called Kong Soo Do. GM Chun learned Han Moo Kwan (korean martial arts) Karate while living in Japan. The Yun Moo Kwan/Ji Do Kwan emblem is a figure eight inside a curly design. The signature technique was a front kick punch and other sources say the Ji Do Kwan signature was the round house (dolyo chagi). Ji Do Kwan practitioners were also known for their emphasis on Sparring. Possibly this was because the original Ji Do Kwan in Seoul was right next to a boxing gym.

4) YMCA KWON BUP / CHANG MOO KWAN was founded the following year after Yun Moo Kwan (in 1946) and was the fifth orginal kwan. Chang Moo Kwan was originally called the YMCA Kwon Bup. Chang Moo Kwan was founded by GM Yoon, Byung In. GM Yoon studied Shudokan Karate. The trade mark technique in Chang Moo Kwan was the dolyo Chagi. Supposedly a full round house (without retract), and mom dolyo chagi.

5)CHI DO KWAN was founded by Grand Master Yun, Kwai Byung and opened following Chang Moo Kwan also in 1946

Several other schools were formed between 1953 and the early 1960's:

6) SONG MOO KWAN was formed after World War Two, founded by Grand Master Ro, Byung Jick. Grand Master Ro studied Subak and Tae Kyon, in Korea as a youth. During the Japanese occupation he earned a Black Belt in Shotokan Karate. After the war he returned to Korea and combined the fighting styles of shotokan (powerful hand techniques) and Tae Kyon (flowing kicks) and called it Song Moo Kwan. Song Moo Kwan stands for Pine Tree School.

7) OH DO KWAN stands for Gym of My Way. Oh Do Kwan opened between 1953-54 during the Korean War. Oh Do Kwan was considered a sub kwan of the Chung Do Kwan. Oh Do Kwan was mostly known for its Side and Jumping Side Kick, possibly influenced by Chung Do Kwan. General Choi was the founder of this Kwan.

8) HAN MOO KWAN was a sub kwan of Ji Do Kwan. Han Moo Kwan was said to dominate the tournaments through the use of the roundhouse kick (Dolyo Chagi). The roundhouse kick is still the dominant kick today in modern Olympic Taekwondo tournaments.

Source: http://members.aol.com/ustccolospgs/KwanHistory.htm

[MaverickZ]

well, i don't have time to comment on all of that, but Moo Duk Kwan is the Tang Soo Do, chung do kwan was never Tang Soo Do.

and i have NEVER heard of each kwan being known for a specific kick, they had their detail differences, but none were known for some special technique.

[Vyyk]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but Chang Hun and Oh Do Kwan are one and the same, right?

[Vapour]

.

[Vapour]

And the source of information lead to the site which say TKD is 2000 years old.

http://members.aol.com/ustccolospgs/TKDHistory.htm

Nuf said.

[Vyyk]

Isn't it?

[pazman]

okay, the taekwondo history thing is obviously garbage, so i won't even bother.

as for the original post, its kind of pointless for me to try to analyze the different kwans just by what technique they were known for. what were the different training methods employed by each kwan? if one kwan emphasized full-contact sparring and another emphasized ki cultivation and thinking of rainbows, then it would be a bit more obvious which one i would cross out.

btw, where did you get this? the school i trained at as a kid was moo sul kwan, derived from chang moo kwan, and you're definately right about the technique emphasis.

[miguksaram]

Ok..where to begin, where to begin. First of all, I am not familiar with specialized techniques which kwans were known for. So I am not going to bother analyzing it. So let's just get down tothe obvious. Kwan derived from the chinese word kwoon meaning school. Chung Do Kwan=Way of the Blue Wave School, Ji Do Kwan= Way of Wisdom School, Oh Do Kwan = School of My Way, etc.etc..My point? Simple these people did not have any specializing techniques. They were Korean branches of Shotokan. Granted schools such as Jidokwan (had Shudokan influence as well as Yudo influence), Chang Moo Kwan (Shudokan as well as chuan 'fa influence), did offer a bit of different curriculum. However, the majority were just different Koreans teaching the same art their way. Much like if I go to Joe's Shotokan School or Craig's School of Shotokan, they would be teaching the same art with their own take on it. Yes, you may have had some fighters known for their techniques, but the individual kwans did not advertise as such. So we must keep in mind that the original TKD was Korean Karate, becuae their roots where from Shotokan. Exceptions to this was Moo Duk Kwan which had heavy influence from chinese Chuan'fa but the forms came from GM Hwang Ki reading an Okinawin forms book, Jidokwan which had Shudokan influence brought by GM Yoon, Byung-in who later help form the Chang Moo Kwan (the last exception) I hope this helps.

Now Chang Hun was an offshoot of Oh Do Kwan, however, I beleive the DJN of Chang Hun aka American Taekwondo Assoication, developed his own set of forms.

As for that history post......all I can do is shake my head and say "Vapour stop trying to confuse the newbies." :)

[rmclain]

Chang Moo Kwan: Byung-In Yoon studied chuan-fa near Shanghai during his youth in China, until he went to Nihon University in Japan during the 1930's. He met and trained in karate with Kanken Toyama until Yoon traveled to Korea following WWII.

Chang Moo Kwan was the only Kwan with both Chinese Chuan-fa and Okinawan karate taught together.

I've never been told that it's trademark technique was the roundhouse kick. Where did you hear that?

R. McLain

[Vapour]

Well, let not forget that karate originate from White Crane and Five Ancestors Kung Fu. In the end, who care. No one would say, Shotokan is better than Kyokushin because kyokushin originate from shotokan. As of TKD used to be Korean karate, it is a fact so accept it. I still think it is sub style of broad karate family but that is more of semantic than anything. And again, one could argue that karate fall into sub set of Kung Fu.

Aside from that, I don't agree on TKD's emphasis on Korean nationalism because I consider it as a distraction from martial arts. But lot of Westerners like that. As of WTF TKD being a sports, I do think that it is less interesting adaptation of fighting arts into sport format than say Muay Thai's kickboxing rule or Kyokushin's Knock Out point rule or Jujutu's adaptiation into judo/BJJ rules. I have a friend who practice ITF TKD and his TKD is very close to Karate ->Okinawan->Kung Fu root. His form training incoroprate much of breathing and internal strength exercise. And there are strong emphasis on destruction. And it took for him about 5 years for his black belt.

[miguksaram]

Aside from that, I don't agree on TKD's emphasis on Korean nationalism because I consider it as a distraction from martial arts

Ahhh, but wait, TKD was established as the Korean National sport. Regardless of how you feel about it martial art vs martial sport, TKD is Korea's little pride and joy (regardless of its origins). Think about it, TKD is practiced in almost every country in the world. How could they not be proud?

[MaverickZ]

heh, WTF is their little pride and joy.

they aren't too happy about the whole ITF "splinter group"

[miguksaram]

True, main reason is that Gen. Choi approached N. Korea with it. This was a big slap in the face with the S. Korean government.

[shironinja]

I confess I had sinister goals. I was having difficulty locating information on the original kwans. SO I posted this thread in order to fish for more information. So far it's worked a little. But I want MORE! :D

[miguksaram]

Originally posted by shironinja
I confess I had sinister goals. I was having difficulty locating information on the original kwans. SO I posted this thread in order to fish for more information. So far it's worked a little. But I want MORE! :D

~laughing~ Ok shironinja, what more would you like to know and of what kwan?

[drunkenj]

i used to train ma (not tkd) with a guy who had been a gtf tkd instructor, i understand there are a few different feds, whats the difference are gtf pussies?