San Shou/Sanda

[Cullion]

I'm looking forward to researching up on TCC and learning more about it.

One of the reasons that TCC has done so well in UK amateur San Shou is because of the greater focus on wrestling and takedowns.

[Pandinha]

One of the reasons that TCC has done so well in UK amateur San Shou is because of the greater focus on wrestling and takedowns.

Interesting, this is another whole world opening for me.

What is stopping San Shou from becoming MMA? Not inasmuch as the system, but the actual ranges of fighting.

Striking/Kicking
Pummeling/Grappling
Ground Fighting

[Cullion]

Interesting, this is another whole world opening for me.

What is stopping San Shou from becoming MMA? Not inasmuch as the system, but the actual ranges of fighting.

Striking/Kicking
Pummeling/Grappling
Ground Fighting

Some people prefer San Shou as a spectator sport to MMA because the requirement to keep it standing keeps things dynamic and easy to see what's going on. At the higher skill levels, you get to see a whole fight of big-ass throws & takedowns and exchanges of powerful blows.

You've probably seen this before, but it's nice stuff:-
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TcnT3Mx-ZTU

San Shou rules are based upon the old Lei Tai challenge format (and in San Shou you can still score by forcing your opponent out of an area. Until recently one UK San Shou promoter still provided a raised platform surrounded by mats for the fights).

My personal opinion as to why the chinese chose a 'no ground' format for their public competitive pressure testing of their various MAs (and why those MAs don't have much, if anything, in the way of ground fighting) has been posted in semi-troll form throughout this thread.

[Goju - Joe]

Some people prefer San Shou as a spectator sport to MMA because the requirement to keep it standing keeps things dynamic and easy to see what's going on. At the higher skill levels, you get to see a whole fight of big-ass throws & takedowns and exchanges of powerful blows.

You've probably seen this before, but it's nice stuff:-
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TcnT3Mx-ZTU

San Shou rules are based upon the old Lei Tai challenge format (and in San Shou you can still score by forcing your opponent out of an area. Until recently one UK San Shou promoter still provided a raised platform surrounded by mats for the fights).

My personal opinion as to why the chinese chose a 'no ground' format for their public competitive pressure testing of their various MAs (and why those MAs don't have much, if anything, in the way of ground fighting) has been posted in semi-troll form throughout this thread.

I really like that video

However there's nothing in San Shou I see that isn't in MMA comps also. and as far as ignoring the ground the argument could be made that if you are on the receiving end of a good slam and the opponent comes in to finish you off, which will happen in both 1 on 1 and multiple opponent fights then you need the ground work component in both cases.

[Cullion]

I really like that video

However there's nothing in San Shou I see that isn't in MMA comps also.

The techniques are all allowed in MMA but being forced to keep yourself standing makes for different strategy and the standup focus means the competitors standup is more highly developed.

[Goju - Joe]

The techniques are all allowed in MMA but being forced to keep yourself standing makes for different strategy and the standup focus means the competitors standup is more highly developed.


Again I agree and disagree

I would say you just described Chuck Lidell's entire fight strategy. His whole strategy is to keep it standing and incase of getting taken down not to be held stand and stand back up.

San Shou fighters might have more developed stand up compared to MMA fighters with a grappling back ground but guys like Chuck and Cro Cop to name a few have as good if not better stand up.

So there's nothing inherent in MMA against having great stand up ability.

[Cullion]

Again I agree and disagree

I would say you just described Chuck Lidell's entire fight strategy. His whole strategy is to keep it standing and incase of getting taken down not to be held stand and stand back up.

San Shou fighters might have more developed stand up compared to MMA fighters with a grappling back ground but guys like Chuck and Cro Cop to name a few have as good if not better stand up.

So there's nothing inherent in MMA against having great stand up ability.

No, it's just not a hallmark of fighters who base style was BJJ. Chuck isn't. Neither's cro cop. Sure, they picked up ground later. Not their speciality.

[Ming Loyalist]

No, it's just not a hallmark of fighters who base style was BJJ. Chuck isn't. Neither's cro cop. Sure, they picked up ground later. Not their speciality.

actually chuck was a competitive wrestler in the past (collegiate i believe)

[Cullion]

actually chuck was a competitive wrestler in the past (collegiate i believe)

That's why his takedown defence is good so he can keep things standing and beat them to death.

[Goju - Joe]

No, it's just not a hallmark of fighters who base style was BJJ. Chuck isn't. Neither's cro cop. Sure, they picked up ground later. Not their speciality.


Wait I am confused this thread is all over the place.

I thought we were talking restrictive rule sets of BJJ and MMA training versus sef defense training and that San Shou was held up to be more realistic because people aren't taking ti to the ground and therefore are forced to have better stand up than an MMA fighter?

Therefore MMA fighters who are BJJ based are still dealing with striking and therefore something or other

I'm pretty lost by now as to what my point is.

[UpaLumpa]

That's why his takedown defence is good so he can keep things standing and beat them to death.

Rules keeping it standing doesn't mean yuo can technically keep it standing. Also, standing up after a takedown in sanshou doesn't mean you can GET UP. Something Chuck absolutely can do.

In other words, and always MMA>SanShou.

[oldman34]

That's why his takedown defence is good so he can keep things standing and beat them to death.

Actually Chuck was a wrestler first, and took Kempo later on. Therefore his base would be some form of grappling/groundwork.

You have been pwmed and all your base belong to me. :)


So in SanShou when the fight does go to the ground, do they just stand them up, or do they have to fight their way back to their feet? There is a BIG difference.

I digress. To get back to the main thread point. When someone says that BJJ trains with "aliveness" they are refering to the fact that you are attacking and defending with techniques at/near full speed and power.

90% of BJJ [correct me if Im wrong] is actaully on the ground. The remaining 10% is clinch/takedown/takedown defense. IMO it is easier to learn to defend against or takedown an opponent than to grapple with them on the ground.

[isol8d]

So in SanShou when the fight does go to the ground, do they just stand them up, or do they have to fight their way back to their feet? There is a BIG difference.


When the fight goes to the ground, the fighters are stood back up.

[oldman34]

When the fight goes to the ground, the fighters are stood back up.


Thanks.

[ICY]

It's like Muay Thai, only with crappy throws and crappy striking.

[isol8d]

It's like Muay Thai, only with crappy throws and crappy striking.

so which throws in particular are crappy?