Chinese Submission Wrestling?

[isol8d]

The International Chinese Martial Arts Championship (http://kungfuchampionship.com/) 2007 has added Submission Wrestling to it's repertoire. Any one here practice Chinese Submission wrestling? The ISKA title belt will be awarded for Submission Wrestling and San Shou this year.


They've added another san shou division this year too, but my school is not competing at this tournament this year, but I'll probably go as a spectator.

[CodosDePiedra]

My school was sending a crew to Florida for that (including me), but then we realized we were all poor. Chinese submission wrestling? We have some old photos from the 20s or 30s where some northern shaolin guys are doing some submission grappling type stuff: RNC, calf crush, arm bar, scarf hold etc.

[isol8d]

I'm highly skeptical of that tournament in the first place, adding the Submission Wrestling to a CMA tournament just does not seem like a good fit... Should be fun to watch at least...

[PizDoff]

I've heard of Chinese Wrestling, but not Chinese Submission Wrestling.

Shuai jiao have real subs?

[Ming Loyalist]

I've heard of Chinese Wrestling, but not Chinese Submission Wrestling.

Shuai jiao have real subs?

yes they do, but for the most part they don't spend enough time on groundwork to make them work against a decent BJJ guy.

i suck at groundwork and the shuai jiao guys i train with are always catching me in weird joint locks and neck cranks. they both do some crosstraining in judo and bjj as well though.

i would say that anyone who is good at shuai jiao wouldn't have much trouble becoming a good ground fighter by regularly rolling with bjj or sambo people.

i wish this tournament was closer to me, i'd like to take some people.

maybe next year.

[ICY]

Paging Matt Furey...

[CodosDePiedra]

My school has actually done well historically at that tournament, but mostly in forms divisions.

[bobyclumsyninja]

Do you know if any small circle joint lock stuff will be allowed? Finger locks etc?

[Hands]

I've heard of Chinese Wrestling, but not Chinese Submission Wrestling.

Shuai jiao have real subs?
I think they just added "submission" in the middle. Yes, there are some joint locks in kung-fu styles that work well in a clinch or on the ground. Its not all "monkey bends the dragon's pinky" kind of thing. Not many people in CMA have the groundfighting components but there are some out there. I think you're going to see more of that popping up.

There is also the "what works standing up works on the ground" kind of thing. In my personal experience I find this to be true as long as the person knows groundfighting. ie you take a person with some kind of grappling background that learns CMA standup locks (or vice-versa). They will then be able to apply the chin-na on the ground.

[EmetShamash]

There is chin-na out there that is not done standing up as well. The whole "what works standing up works on the ground" argument isn't really taking everything into account. When you are on the ground you are much closer to the opponent and without having to use your legs to support you many things can be done with the legs to lock up an opponent. I should add that I realize these things are not trained a whole lot in any schools that we hear about much.

[Hands]

. . . many things can be done with the legs to lock up an opponent.

Are saying that you can use the legs to lock up the opponent while you're on the ground or are you saying that many chin-na techniques can't be used on the ground because chin-na techniques rely on the legs?

[Virus]

http://ec1.images-amazon.com/images/I/51KAQENMH2L._BO2,204,203,200_PIsitb-dp-500-arrow,TopRight,45,-64_OU01_AA240_SH20_.jpg

[Hands]

http://ec1.images-amazon.com/images/I/51KAQENMH2L._BO2,204,203,200_PIsitb-dp-500-arrow,TopRight,45,-64_OU01_AA240_SH20_.jpg
*pukes* I've looked through that book before and didn't really care for it.

[Virus]

You don't care for it!!!! but that's an ude garami (with added fingerlock deadly) it's a proven technique!!!!

[Sophist]

Are saying that you can use the legs to lock up the opponent while you're on the ground or are you saying that many chin-na techniques can't be used on the ground because chin-na techniques rely on the legs?
The majority of the higher-percentage ground techniques use the legs to control the opponent. Juji-gatame, the standard armbar, uses the legs; the triangle choke uses the legs; the omoplata uses the legs. The americana and kimura (both a.k.a. judo ude-garami) do not use the legs, but rely on positional configurations effectively impossible to achieve in stand-up.

Very few locks work at all against resistance in stand-up. Of those that do, ude-gatame is probably the highest percentage groundfighting lock, and it's not one of the more common submissions.

Stand-up techniques translate hideously badly to the ground. Of course, having some notion of the mechanics of locks may provide some help in groundfighting against someone with no idea what they're doing, but since ground techniques are so different it doesn't give much of a head start.

[JBliss]

as far as i know CMA's and Shuai Chiao in particular have NO ground component. Being that if you hit the ground you lost/died cuz someone would be stabbing you shortly or some such. I also used to hear " Men fight standing up" alot. It's funny, guys in jail say the same thing.