Wong Kiew Kit

[shmuel]

Can anyone recommend this person?

He is a well-known author of books on Shaolin kung fu. There is a branch school near where I live.

Is WKK genuine?

One thing that kind of gave me some concerns was when I phoned the instructor to ask what style was taught, he said it was simply "South Shaolin."

Isn't that a bit vague though?

I asked if it was a specific style name like Hung Gar but he kept saying that it was "South Shaolin" and said it was the original Shaolin style practiced at the temple, before it evolved into separate styles like Hung Gar and others.

Does this sound legit?

[Guizzy]

No, it doesn't sound legit to me.

Never heard of someone that would be able to claim to teach such a thing as South Shaolin. While he would have been excused if it was Northern Shaolin (which is often used to call longfist styles), it sounds too much like he wanted to apply this same wording to the South to make himself sound more "definitive".

Furthermore; the more a teacher tries to link himself with "Shaolin" and temples, the more I doubt his legitimacy.

[glad2bhere]

OK--- let me say that I do not train in a Chinese Boxing style. What I am about to say comes from the research that I have been doing regarding the Chinese underpinnings to the Korean martial traditions. I don't know WONG Kiew Kit though as I write this I do have his book and have used it to provide some general direction on occasion. That said I will be the first to say very loudly that one needs to exercise great caution when attempting to pursue a lineage or tradition as almost all claims to ancient lineages are spurious and most assertions to having ties to well-known personages or institutions are invariably contrived. Here are a couple of things that I have found that have helped me.

a.) General Qi's Boxing Canon (See: Douglas Wile) lists 16 foremost traditions that the General drew on for his material. This gives you a snapshot of what at least 16 major and accepted Boxing styles were about 1567 when his book was published.

b.) There is no "Shaolin" art. The Buddhist temples of old were social welfare institutions that often took in maginalized people including bandits, the disenfranchized, poor and stigmatized. There were practices to help provide for internal security, protection from bandits, and to keep slaves and the lay population in line. The idea of a "style of Boxing" is a fabrication stemming from poetry and opera classics of the 18th century (See: Stanley Hennings).

c.) The use of the term "Shaolin" as well as "Long Fist" have become umbrella terms in modern parlance just as "Judo", "Karate" and even TAEKWONDO have come to be generic terms. When, for instance, YANG Jwing-ming says that he teaches "Long Fist" he is not speaking of the Taizu Long Fist attributed to the emperor of the 10th Centruy Song Empire.

d.) When one is speaking of Southern Boxing traditions there is almost no traditions of comprehensive and cohesive curriculum that go back more than three or four generations. Most are "village kung-fu" that when made available to the general public had impressive terms and personages appended to them.

So what does all of this mean? It means that you do your homework, ask questions and don't be impressed simply because the eyes looking back at you happen to have an epicanthic fold to them. It is racism of the purest kind to think that Asian people have some special pre-disposition to Eastern Martial Arts, just as it is similarly wrong to think we Westerners have the market cornered on Baseball. Thoughts?

Best Wishes,

Bruce

[shmuel]

Thanks Bruce. Very informative post.
I do have to admit that this WKK writes very well.

[Bang!]

http://wongkk.com/video-clips/taijiquan/boxing01.html

This clip has been brought up before (fairly recently again, I think). I mention it here because it's a good example of . . . Never mind. Take a look and tell us what you think.

[Mr. Mantis]

I can not recommend this person, sorry.

[lee]

as a teacher of chinese style gladtbhere ?? its probably mispelled . you hit it on the head bang on. l have read quite a bit what hes written about himself. l would say its like a lot in h.k. would say a h.k. phone book lots of words little content.

[dwhomp]

http://wongkk.com/video-clips/taijiquan/boxing01.html

This clip has been brought up before (fairly recently again, I think). I mention it here because it's a good example of . . . Never mind. Take a look and tell us what you think.

Wow...I will say it if you dont want to...

One of the dumbest things I have seen. If an instructor I was studying with taught this? Be my last class forever.

I will say this will all the arrgoence I so choose to have...that video makes me feel masterful.

It is this kinda shit that makes Chinese arts so unrespected.

Not to mention, if the URL is correct, this is part of his TCC?! My God...

[dwhomp]

After watching more of his videos on the TCC since at least it is internal and I have some reference there, it is bad. Training TCC with this guy for martial work is a waste of time.

I think that is as polite as I can get.

[Mut Sao]

I have read a part of one of his books, not impressed in the slightest....

on the southern styles only being able to go back 3-4 gens, not sure i agree with that the chow gar is 9th generation currently (give or take)

[shmuel]

Oh my god!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I just found this: http://www.shaolin-wahnam.org/wkk.html

Includes such gems as:

Later that year, he publicly demonstrated sending chi up to the sky to disperse clouds!

I'm sorry I wasted everyone's time with this thread.

[glad2bhere]

I have read a part of one of his books, not impressed in the slightest....

on the southern styles only being able to go back 3-4 gens, not sure i agree with that the chow gar is 9th generation currently (give or take)

I would have to go with what you are sharing as I can't represent myself as any sort of CMA authority. What I have experienced for myself is that once I start to move backwards in time regarding any one particular tradition it seems that it is only three or four generations at most before

a.) a person is found to have mixed a couple of traditions to produce something "new",
b.) trained under some unidentified personality or been generally associated with an institution, or
c.) had his foundation in a familiy or village tradition whose originas are no longer known.

Most people I know who have studied a tradition can tell you pretty much about where its from and what its about. When things start getting vague as to persons, places and things I start looking at my watch and wondering how I could be better using my time. FWIW.

Best Wishes,

Bruce

[lee]

if it sounds to good it usually isnt , this proves it .

[Scott Larson]

That video was just a demonstration of a principle, not a real fighting situation. I'm not going to try to change anyone's mind, but Wong Kiew Kit does have skill.

[lee]

l just really read his website and he may have some skill . but his site reads like a old saying bullshit baffles brains . theres a lot of unsubstaniated claims . his demo of skill isnt impressive as is his claims . l still say if it sounds to good it usually is. to convince me l would like to see him cross hands with one of my students.. this is my opinion and l stick with it.

[glad2bhere]

That video was just a demonstration of a principle, not a real fighting situation. I'm not going to try to change anyone's mind, but Wong Kiew Kit does have skill.

I'm not sure thats altogether the question. If I am following these posts at all well, I think the question is the nature of that skill. It would probably help to have some objective third party who had crossed pathes with this individual and could speak with some authority about what they experienced. Self-reports are usually not very reliable nor are the reports of folks who are beholden such as students or organizational members. Does anyone have any independent sources to draw on? Thoughts?

Best Wishes,

Bruce