iandi
03-01-2007, 10:11 AM
Greetings. I was reading a couple of threads here concerning _ing _hun and I found a very good set of reasons as to why the art isn't respected here, and I wanted to weigh in on it.
Wing Tsun is generally laughed on here because:
1) Outrageous claims (complete system, grappling is in the forms, doing forms over and over will make you a good fighter, etc, etc).
2) Lack of alive training (read the articles on aliveness for an explanation if you need one).
3) Emin Boztepe Vs. Cheung was one of the crappiest fights ever and looked like two kids slapping each other.
4) Many people have done Wing Tsun and moved on to other things because of their experiences (myself included).
5) Retarded lineage wars over who has the real _ing _un, when most outsiders see it all as being equally crappy.
6) A lack of high level Wing Tsun people competing in combat sports (boxing or mma, you choose).
My thoughts in order on the points outlined above ...
Point 1:
I've never seen any grappling in any of the forms I've learned, and I've never been led to believe from my teacher or fellow students at the school that there is any. Furthermore, doing forms all day long definitely does not make a _ing _hun guy a good fighter. True, forms help you learn the basic techniques, and they also help you learn proper body structure, and proper footwork, but a repertoire of memorized forms does not a good fighter make.
Point 2:
Chi Sao, 1 hand Lok Sau, 2 hand lok sau do NOT prepare you for fighting either in competition, or on the street. They're intended strictly as a laboratory to help you experiment with the different techniques while building sensitivity. That's it. It is of the utmost importance to then use what you're learned in an alive -I believe is what you call it- kind of way. If you don't fight, you're not going to be a good fighter.
Point 3:
There is nothing what-so-ever about the Emin Boztepe / Cheung fight that deserves to be dignified with written words or discussion.
Point 4:
I have to say, when I got started in _ing _chun I got started in it because I was told it was a superior martial art, and I read about it, and I read that it was a superior martial art. A lot of other people probably got involved in it that way too. Fortunately for me, I wound up learning the art from a man who teaches that it's the practitioner who is ultimately responsible for using his art in a superior way, and the same holds true for Judo men, Jiu Jitsu men, Karate men, etc. Just learning _ing _hun doesn't make someone deadly, it doesn't make someone a superior fighter. I was never led to believe that _ing _hun had the power to transform a weakling with no heart for fighting into a solid, deadly fighter. I have a responsible teacher, unfortunately a lot of good martial artists didn't and I believe it turned them off to the system and rightfully so.
Point 5:
There is nothing what-so-ever about the _ing _chun lineage wars that deserves to be dignified with written words or discussion, except to say that it's infantile.
Point 6:
High-level practitioners of all martial arts ought to represent their styles in competitions like PRIDE or the UFC, etc. When a _ing _hun man says "I can't compete in PRIDE or UFC fights because they don't allow for me to use devastating _ing _hun techniques like punching the throat or eye gouging, etc." he is doing nothing more than expressing that he hasn't mastered his art. A decent, competent practitioner of any art ought to be able to adapt and use his techniques as the situation requires. A UFC fight certainly qualifies as a situation. If you can't punch the throat like you were taught, punch somewhere else where you can punch. This is true more so for _ing _hun men, because _ing _hun is a dynamic art, meant to be practiced by individuals who have learned to be dynamic. Bottom line, don't make pathetic excuses, if you don't want to try out and fight in UFC because you don't have faith in your prowess as a fighter, and you're afraid of getting your ass kicked on national television just say so. I will use myself as an example. I've been practicing and learning _ing _hun since 2001. I'm in relatively good shape, and I'm a pretty competent practitioner, and I've used what I know of _ing _hun to defend myself several times and survived. I am not, however, the caliber of fighter necessary to survive a UFC match, I have not been led to believe, by my teacher or by myself that _ing _hun alone will allow me, a regular guy who's in decent shape for his age to defeat an individual who trains 6 hours a day for competition, I am thankful for that.
With all the hatred of _ing _hun around here I guess the reason why I keep coming back to Bullshido and reading your articles and forums is due to the fact that ultimately it helps me fight my war on illusion. I think a lot of martial artists walk around under the delusion that they're competent fighters because they train in an art a few days a week, and they get involved in the elementary school line of reasoning that leads them to believe that they've somehow developed deadly super-human abilities.
I don't want to be one of those people. I'd rather be a regular guy who learns _ing _hun because I like it, who boxes with his friends from his school and other schools because it's good to fight with aliveness, who's teacher doesn't lie to him, and who doesn't have grandiose delusions about his over-all level of skill. I'm happy being this guy. I think that a lot of other martial artists, not just _ing _hun men, but from any art would be too. At least that way they'd know where they stand.
Wing Tsun is generally laughed on here because:
1) Outrageous claims (complete system, grappling is in the forms, doing forms over and over will make you a good fighter, etc, etc).
2) Lack of alive training (read the articles on aliveness for an explanation if you need one).
3) Emin Boztepe Vs. Cheung was one of the crappiest fights ever and looked like two kids slapping each other.
4) Many people have done Wing Tsun and moved on to other things because of their experiences (myself included).
5) Retarded lineage wars over who has the real _ing _un, when most outsiders see it all as being equally crappy.
6) A lack of high level Wing Tsun people competing in combat sports (boxing or mma, you choose).
My thoughts in order on the points outlined above ...
Point 1:
I've never seen any grappling in any of the forms I've learned, and I've never been led to believe from my teacher or fellow students at the school that there is any. Furthermore, doing forms all day long definitely does not make a _ing _hun guy a good fighter. True, forms help you learn the basic techniques, and they also help you learn proper body structure, and proper footwork, but a repertoire of memorized forms does not a good fighter make.
Point 2:
Chi Sao, 1 hand Lok Sau, 2 hand lok sau do NOT prepare you for fighting either in competition, or on the street. They're intended strictly as a laboratory to help you experiment with the different techniques while building sensitivity. That's it. It is of the utmost importance to then use what you're learned in an alive -I believe is what you call it- kind of way. If you don't fight, you're not going to be a good fighter.
Point 3:
There is nothing what-so-ever about the Emin Boztepe / Cheung fight that deserves to be dignified with written words or discussion.
Point 4:
I have to say, when I got started in _ing _chun I got started in it because I was told it was a superior martial art, and I read about it, and I read that it was a superior martial art. A lot of other people probably got involved in it that way too. Fortunately for me, I wound up learning the art from a man who teaches that it's the practitioner who is ultimately responsible for using his art in a superior way, and the same holds true for Judo men, Jiu Jitsu men, Karate men, etc. Just learning _ing _hun doesn't make someone deadly, it doesn't make someone a superior fighter. I was never led to believe that _ing _hun had the power to transform a weakling with no heart for fighting into a solid, deadly fighter. I have a responsible teacher, unfortunately a lot of good martial artists didn't and I believe it turned them off to the system and rightfully so.
Point 5:
There is nothing what-so-ever about the _ing _chun lineage wars that deserves to be dignified with written words or discussion, except to say that it's infantile.
Point 6:
High-level practitioners of all martial arts ought to represent their styles in competitions like PRIDE or the UFC, etc. When a _ing _hun man says "I can't compete in PRIDE or UFC fights because they don't allow for me to use devastating _ing _hun techniques like punching the throat or eye gouging, etc." he is doing nothing more than expressing that he hasn't mastered his art. A decent, competent practitioner of any art ought to be able to adapt and use his techniques as the situation requires. A UFC fight certainly qualifies as a situation. If you can't punch the throat like you were taught, punch somewhere else where you can punch. This is true more so for _ing _hun men, because _ing _hun is a dynamic art, meant to be practiced by individuals who have learned to be dynamic. Bottom line, don't make pathetic excuses, if you don't want to try out and fight in UFC because you don't have faith in your prowess as a fighter, and you're afraid of getting your ass kicked on national television just say so. I will use myself as an example. I've been practicing and learning _ing _hun since 2001. I'm in relatively good shape, and I'm a pretty competent practitioner, and I've used what I know of _ing _hun to defend myself several times and survived. I am not, however, the caliber of fighter necessary to survive a UFC match, I have not been led to believe, by my teacher or by myself that _ing _hun alone will allow me, a regular guy who's in decent shape for his age to defeat an individual who trains 6 hours a day for competition, I am thankful for that.
With all the hatred of _ing _hun around here I guess the reason why I keep coming back to Bullshido and reading your articles and forums is due to the fact that ultimately it helps me fight my war on illusion. I think a lot of martial artists walk around under the delusion that they're competent fighters because they train in an art a few days a week, and they get involved in the elementary school line of reasoning that leads them to believe that they've somehow developed deadly super-human abilities.
I don't want to be one of those people. I'd rather be a regular guy who learns _ing _hun because I like it, who boxes with his friends from his school and other schools because it's good to fight with aliveness, who's teacher doesn't lie to him, and who doesn't have grandiose delusions about his over-all level of skill. I'm happy being this guy. I think that a lot of other martial artists, not just _ing _hun men, but from any art would be too. At least that way they'd know where they stand.
