TKD revisionist history

[m4949]

First, let me say that I am so sick of ready that TKD is thousands of years old. Second, I am sick of hearing that it's orgins soley from Korea.
I really enjoy how all these super pro TKD people always fail to mention that General Choi defected to North Korea!

Just had to vent.

Your skills are EXTRAordinary; You have our Gratitude.

[Phoenix]

Choi defected? Where did you hear that from?

I thought he just did an exhibition of his art in North Korea, and that was enough to piss off the South Korean government and have Choi stripped of his rank.

That's why he moved to Canada. Because he didn't want to relinquish his rank.

But I'm interested in your sources. Where did you get this info?

[miguksaram]

Choi was origninally from N. Korea (born there prior to Korean war). He took the ITF over there to demonstrate to the N Koreans. This lead to S. Korean government labling him as a traitor and thus stripping his rank. Now there are other conspirasies about them plotting to assasinate him, imprison him, and other such things. You will have to ask some hard core ITF members about that.

Anyway, Choi defected to Canada, never to N. Korea, but has made many trips to N. Korea in order to promote his version of TKD. Ironically, they label him the traitor, but the S. Korean army still practice Oh Do Kwan system of TKD which is more related to ITF than WTF, even though they do have WTF leagues in the military.

Hopefully this section will help weed out the 2000 year old garbage you have heard.

Jeremy M. Talbott

Owner of Kungfools, Scourge of Kungfools' joke-based logic, and the Preeminent Force in putting dumbasses like him to bed
http://www.koreanma.homestead.com/index.html
http://www.martialscience.homestead.com/home.html

[Phoenix]

Thanks for clearing that up, Miguk...

I knew I was on the right track....but I'm still interested to know where M4949 got his info from.

[m4949]

The Obituary I had found, said he died in Pyongyang.
"Shortly before his death in Pyongyang, the North Korean capital, Choi was able to announce through the ITF website, "I am the man who has the most followers in the world": be that as it may, the impact of taekwondo, with 50m practitioners after 50 years of existence, is undeniable."

http://www.guardian.co.uk/korea/article/0,2763,771475,00.html

If I am wrong, sorry.

Reason I get so fed up on this is issue I come from a Tang soo do Background. TSD does give credit to Chinese and Japanese arts as roots ( at lease my school did). I get so furstrated when I workout with TKD guys who insist that Koreans invented all of it thousands of years ago.



Your skills are EXTRAordinary; You have our Gratitude.

[rmclain]

m4949,

Even though there is evidence of some form of martial technique being practiced in the past in Korea, the Taekwondo-type arts undeniably get their foundation after WWII from Japanese/Okinawan and Chinese arts.

Even Choi Hong Hi studied karate in Japan. He achieved either brown belt or 1st dan before returning to Korea - I've heard both from people that were there at that time.

The reason for the BS history many people pass along is because of the S. Korean Govt. In the 1960's the politicians (with the money) felt it was unpatriotic for Koreans to practice any art coming through Japan. The five major schools (except the Chang Moo Kwan) in S. Korea were based from karate that Koreans brought back from their experience from living in Japan.

The govt. sought to unify the five major schools into one system and create a "new" art with new requirements and "Korean" labels. Korean govt. historians fictionalized Taekwondo as being thousands of years old because "people without a history are easier to control." In this case - they were fed the history that could help maintain control and support the push for "Korean" Taekwondo. Anyone resisting the unification was labeled as a "traitor." Most of those people quit, were squeezed into obsurity, or left the country.

Plus, most of Koreans were poor and would gladly accept the meager salaries that the govt. handed out to teach Taekwondo.

It is good that your school gave credit to its roots. I think it is important to know your history to understand the foundation of the art you study. I also think it is important to stand on the shoulders of the teachers that came before you, and reach farther than they could.

R. McLain

[Boffo]

This was the question I really didn't want to answer when I took my black belt test. I was going to lie. Fortunately I didn't get that particular question.

[m4949]

RMclain,
Thanks for restating my point.
We know the real history, why the need to hide it, particularly outside Korea.

Boffo, what is the answer your school expected?


Your skills are EXTRAordinary; You have our Gratitude.

[miguksaram]

"We know the real history, why the need to hide it, particularly outside Korea"

People are most likely spewing out that which they were spoon fed. It is so much easier to just spit out that which you have been fed than it is to get off your ass and look for some new food for thought. I don't believe people are hiding it so much as they just don't know better, at least that is my thought from outside Korea.

As for the Koreans themselves, my view is this, if from your birth, I told you that left is right and vice versa and I drilled that into your head until one day 40 years down the road someone points out the opposite how would you react? By human nature you would deny the new point of view.

Plus the BS history of TKD gives the Koreans national pride in something they feel is uniquely theirs. At the time of formation that pride was widely needed due to post Japanese occupation. Plus how do you tell the world that all the information you have giving them about their national past time is a lie. Only recently are they starting to own up to some of its roots.


Jeremy M. Talbott

Owner of Kungfools, Scourge of Kungfools' joke-based logic, and the Preeminent Force in putting dumbasses like him to bed
http://www.koreanma.homestead.com/index.html
http://www.martialscience.homestead.com/home.html

[m4949]

Miguksaram,
Right On. I always appreciate what you have to say.

Your skills are EXTRAordinary; You have our Gratitude.

[miguksaram]

Also keep in mind this. I do believe TKD has become uniquely Korean. It has far moved away from its Japanese parents and turned into something with more Korean flair. Good or bad it I dont' believe we can call TKD Korean karate anymore. So whenever I refer to traditional TKD I am talking about Korean karate not the art we have today.

I also agree with RM that you are lucky that your art kept it's history real. Then again, your art was split back in the days of the formation of the KTA. Some of the new generation decided to walk the path of the KTA while the older generation chose to stay away and keep their art as it was. A lot of drama back in the days

Jeremy M. Talbott

Owner of Kungfools, Scourge of Kungfools' joke-based logic, and the Preeminent Force in putting dumbasses like him to bed
http://www.koreanma.homestead.com/index.html
http://www.martialscience.homestead.com/home.html

[Boffo]

Boffo, what is the answer your school expected?

That TKD is 2000 years old. Which I find a BS answer.

I agree with Miksugaram. The Koreans took Shotokan and made it all their own. Much like the Gracies took Judo and made it their own. There is, in my opinion, nothing wrong with TKD or Hapkido being young styles. Heck, they could argue that those two styles removed the chaff from TKD or Aikido and made it better.

But nope, Korean nationalism insists that TKD and Hapkido be ancient arts. No big deal. Nothing new. The Romans rewrote their history to seem older as a nation, why can't the modern Koreans?