Taking the Back

[mikus]

I've found recently that taking someone's back when they're on all fours isn't that great of a position to be in when they're good at wing locks. What are good ways to get around these? Whenever I attempt a choke I tend to get rolled over and then dominated. I can try to sweep out an arm, but against someone who is stronger than me, they can generally grab a better hold of my arm and then roll me. I've heard people say that it's no longer considered to be as bad of a position as it used to be. Is this the general consensus?

I'm gonna fight, fight, fight, fight, fight and destruct the world.

[Fisting Kittens]

its bad.

First off if you try and slip the arm over the shoulder to choke you WILL get rolled, always slip one under the arm pit first to control position while you work in the hooks. Also this underarm control quickly turns into a half nelson/wing lock if you want it. Second of all, get your hooks in. If you are hooked in, it gets really hard to shake you.

There are tons of ways to submit once you;ve taken the back and lots of ways to strike very very hard. If you take the back and hook in, yet still lose, then you suck. keep practicing.

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I have discovered the true essence of Bullshido: To crush your enemies. See them driven before you. And hear the lamentation of their women.
In short: to flame.

[HAPKO3]

You should always get at least one hook in BEFORE you go for the choke.

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I remain, Hapko3

[Fisting Kittens]

hooking an arm under the armpit doesn't mean I'm going for the choke immediately, and it often gets in much much faster than hooks. Besides the human body can do multiple things at once.

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I have discovered the true essence of Bullshido: To crush your enemies. See them driven before you. And hear the lamentation of their women.
In short: to flame.

[HAPKO3]

True.

This was a response to mikus, who was complaining that he's getting rolled when going for the choke.

The thing is, when you're going for the choke, you should allready have hooks in, and thus rolling should not be a problem.

When you take someone's back, you should not be in a hurry to submit him. Slow things down, secure your position, and choke him out.

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I remain, Hapko3

[Fisting Kittens]

agreed.

also a favorite thing to play with. this is a NO CONTACT move unless you are a seriously cruel bastard.

Take the back, stretch them out, pull their arms in tight under their chest. Aply strong pressure on the back to keep the arms pinned. Then jump to your feet, while keeping pressure on the back. Stomp the shit out of the back of their head. I like to do this one, but I just tap the back of the head to demonstrate the impending doom.

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I have discovered the true essence of Bullshido: To crush your enemies. See them driven before you. And hear the lamentation of their women.
In short: to flame.

[HAPKO3]

I'll play with that the next time I roll.

Unfortunately it won't be for a while. I screwed up my shoulder kayaking, and it healing veeeeeery veeeeeeeeeery slooooooowly.

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I remain, Hapko3

[Fisting Kittens]

ouch shoulder injuries are a BITCH. I hope there's no rotator cuff damage. Have you been to the doc?

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I have discovered the true essence of Bullshido: To crush your enemies. See them driven before you. And hear the lamentation of their women.
In short: to flame.

[HAPKO3]

Yeah. There was a minor dislocation - my shoulder popped out and immediately back in. No permanent damage according to the doc, but I pulled a few ligaments and have to wait for the inflamation to go away.

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I remain, Hapko3

[mikus]

Hmm, do you recommend just full on jumping it and getting hooks immediately? My main problem (I just started doing judo) is that I'm way too tentative. Next time I'm rolling I'll just go for that. The thing is that he's got about 100 pounds on me, and he's quite a bit stronger than me, added to the fact that he is particularly good at those wing locks.

Er, it's hard to demonstrate what I'm talking about without pics. I'll try to find some so you can see what I'm talking about.

I'm gonna fight, fight, fight, fight, fight and destruct the world.

[The Wastrel]

FK is right. I like to get in that position and encourage people to roll me over, and then I go for this nasty neck-and-shoulder crank...don't know what it's called...

"If you want a picture of the future, imagine a boot stamping on a human face - for ever."

[mikus]

Hmmm. That sucks. I'm doing judo. Which I fucking love but I wish I could find a school that did more illegal moves.

I'm gonna fight, fight, fight, fight, fight and destruct the world.

[Pandinha]

Go for the kick in the ribs first to soften them up.

Once that's done, FK is correct. But so again is The Wastrel, and everyone else.



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"When we go to the ground, you are in my world. The ground is the ocean, I am the shark, and most people don't even know how to swim." RCJ Machado

[IndoChinese]

"I like to get in that position and encourage people to roll me over, and then I go for this nasty neck-and-shoulder crank...don't know what it's called..."

that's kata gatame, chokes him out with his own shoulder, the arm of which is flung overhead and immobiized. tough lock to escape cause of the flanking/half back position. that it? or no?

"Then jump to your feet, while keeping pressure on the back. Stomp the shit out of the back of their head. I like to do this one, but I just tap the back of the head to demonstrate the impending doom"

monkey style silat. very nasty. that's full contact. lol.


"The thing is that he's got about 100 pounds on me, and he's quite a bit stronger than me, added to the fact that he is particularly good at those wing locks."

he is to big, use your legs instead, or use a gi choke and hang off the side of his back like a leech. try wrapping your legs around one arm( grapevines?) and stretch him out( while choking).

do not go over the top of his center of gravity.

if must use your arms, and go on top, use the tech. that Wastrel mentioned. if it's the one i think it is...

dont 'square' up on the big guys in grappling. stay in the 'pockets' on the flanks, and use your feet and legs to attack along with your hands. it is better if you concentrate on one joint, like the ankle, or one limb, like the arm. you gotta be like a fucking barnacle. get behind and put your knees in his back on the spine between the shoulder blades, and throttle him.

peace.

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<marquee> INDONESIAN GUNG FU</marquee>

Edited by - kuntaokid on August 03 2003 00:38:08

[mikus]

How would you get someone in kata gatame after taking their back?

I'm thinking that coming at him from the front would work well. Getting an arm under his right arm and one arm under his face, and dropping my body weight and rolling him under. It's basically the same thing as one wing lock you can do from the bottom position, but you do it from the top.

I'm gonna fight, fight, fight, fight, fight and destruct the world.

[IndoChinese]

"How would you get someone in kata gatame after taking their back?"

its a noose,.... a constriction. go under one arm and over the neck. this works best when they try to roll, they lose certain leverage points. the arm, specifically the elbow, needs to be above the ear. squeeze the guy.

front,back,left,right....what's the difference?

peace.

<marquee>REDANTKUNTAO</marquee>
<marquee> INDONESIAN GUNG FU</marquee>