KATA/FORMS

[Jamoke]

Kata/forms teaches you how to move. it teaches your mind how to correspond with other body parts, timing. It teaches you how to move like water.

in a "street situation", should you think about what your next move is. You can't move like The Tin Man in the WIZARD of OZ.

people who say kata sukks, simply mean THEY SUKK. because without it, you have no foundation to move.

so for you sukk asses who move your feet first then strike, you SUKK and need to practice your kata.

[Shi Heng Che]

I agree with this. A Kata or Taolu is the essense of a style and it contains techniques that can be used.

In a street situation you should not adopt a silly stance because you will get hurt but you should use let the situation choose the technique for you and to respond quickly.

There are forms to teach to techniques and there are forms to build strength.

[HAPKO3]

Kata is a secondary training tool. Doing katas does not teach you to fight, but may be indirectly beneficial. Learning how to fight can be done with or without the use of katas.

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I remain, Hapko3

[Jamoke]

and what is the primary KAPKO3??

[Kempocos]

KATAS are like pushups in the fact that pushups help you hit harder by increasing power, KATA helps to get you to flow ( as jamoke stated ). When Breath and movement are in sync the body is working more efficient increasing power,speed and endurance this is like when a car is tuned and aligned correctly it generates max horsepower. Katas do not teach you how to fight but help you prepare to learn how to fight at your best. IMHO

In the fog of doubt and bad technique, pain clears the view to proper technique.

[PeedeeShaolin]

Kata is useless, or very close to being useless.

There are just too many worthwhile techniques to practice for students to be wasting time on outdated movements and obsolete blocking/striking while rooted in completely worthless stances.

Traditional blocking has never been proven effective.

Traditional strikes from the chambered position are "cocked" and provide a telegraph. On top of that they are much slower because there's a greater distance from the chambered position to the target as opposed to a common defensive hand posture to a target.

KATA does not teach you to react, it teaches you to memorize a useless pattern and perform it in the EXACT same way even though people are INDIVIDUALS who might never be able to use those techniques in the way they were intended.

KATA does not teach a student the concept of DISTANCE.

KATA does not teach a student POWER.

KATA does not teach a student the concept of TIMING.

KATA does not teach you ACCURACY.

You can learn ALL of those things in a simple Thai pad workout where you'll hit ACTUAL TARGETS and move the SAME WAY you would if someone was REALLY in front of you.

Kata might be worthwhile for older people, but the average person can learn alot more by doing a different activity.

[PeedeeShaolin]

Watch the very BEST karate fighters from Kyokushin fight full contact and bare-knuckle. You wont see ANYTHING like KATA in their approach.

Watch the worlds BEST boxers, you know, the guys that get paid MILLION and MILLIONs of dollars to fight.

Watch the very best MMA fighters.

Watch the very best Judoka.

Watch Emin Boztepe vs. GRANDMASTER William Cheung and show me how his forms help him.


KATA is an EXCERCISE. Its a way of teaching the arts history. Nothing in KATA should be taught today as a method of defending yourself.

[Jamoke]

look everybody, jamoke does two things to Peter, makes him run, and brings him out.

Thanks for your input Peter, thank GOD it's ONLY YOUR opinion.

[PeedeeShaolin]

Notice how nobody wants to mention the very valid points I made <img src=icon_smile_wink.gif border=0 align=middle>

[HAPKO3]

and what is the primary KAPKO3??



Primary? I thought you'd know that by now...

Non cooperative technique drills (e.g. I'm trying to throw you out of the clinch while you resist) and free sparring.

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I remain, Hapko3

[Kempocos]

as I stated
Katas do not teach you how to fight but help you prepare to learn how to fight at your best. IMHO

PEEDEE STATED
Watch the very BEST karate fighters from Kyokushin fight full contact and bare-knuckle. You wont see ANYTHING like KATA in their approach.
But I believe they do train in katas

Watch the worlds BEST boxers, you know, the guys that get paid MILLION and MILLIONs of dollars to fight.
shadow boxing is much like katas

Watch the very best MMA fighters.
the ones with TMA backgrounds have trained KATAS

Watch Emin Boztepe vs. GRANDMASTER William Cheung and show me how his forms help him.
The forms helped Emin however, altough it seemd more of a young bigger man jumping on a smaller older man.

KATA is an EXCERCISE. Its a way of teaching the arts history. Nothing in KATA should be taught today as a method of defending yourself.
True an excercise in breath and body movement alignment, I must add I do not like rigid KATAS I prefer them to flow.

All is IMHO

In the fog of doubt and bad technique, pain clears the view to proper technique.

[HAPKO3]

Katas can be very usefull, and you have to be an idiot to deny that.

There's short two man sets in quite a few arts that are valuable tools to learning, especially when done with resistance.

Katas can also be good for worming up, much like shadow boxing.

I'm not a big fan of katas myself - I absolutely hate memorizing long sequences of moves - but to call all of them useless is ignorant.

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I remain, Hapko3

[PeedeeShaolin]

It doesn't matter if they practiced it or not. That wasn't the issue. You see NOTHING reflecting KATA in their movements or technique.

They probably practiced WEAPONS too but you see no evidence of THAT in their fighting either.

The benifits of KATA are just not enough to justify spending any time on. Not when theres much more worthwhile techniques to study.

[PeedeeShaolin]

KATA is VERY close to being COMPLETELY useless.

Tell me, why would you spend time working on something that does NOT build accuracy, timing, focus, power or realistic footwork when you can work on things that build ALL of those AND get you in shape at the same time?

Can ANYONE answer that?

[MMA_Phil]

This site is becoming so Bullshido.

[Mercurius]

Peedee, again you prove yourself full of shit on a level with Blade Windu.

Traditional blocking isn't effective? What tradition and what blocking? Using a Tae Kwon Do middle block against a quick jab; yes, using a slapping parry from Wing Chun against a right cross, no!

The traditional strikes of which you speak (by no means encompassing all traditional percussive movements) prize power and opportunity over speed and flow. They, like all other techniques, have their place, and if used in that place, are entirely effective.

Of course kata does not teach you to react, there are other methods of training that. However, if you have ever used three movements in related succession of one another, you have done something that could have been improved by kata training. Kata training helps teach what movements best follow what other movements, how to follow blocks with counter-attacks, how to attack and keep an opponent on the defensive, and similar strategies.

Kata requires students to estimate distance; otherwise, what the hell is the point of advancing and retreating?

Kata requires students to strike with power; otherwise, they gain nothing from the exercise.

Kata requires students to act with proper timing and allows them to adapt their movements to slower or faster opponents by simply doing the appropriate movements under the right circumstances.

How can you expect kata to teach accuracy? You're asking too much out of what is but one training tool in a set of many designed to function together.

Conversely, one can perform useless patterns all day on Thai pads. How many opponents will let you land six consecutive alternating punches without mounting some defense? How many will let you lead with a jab then throw a roundhouse kick as if they couldn't see it coming?

Further, the source of power is technique and proper body mechanics. You can hit Thai pads for hours; if you're doing it wrong, at the end of the day you'll still be a big pussy.

And how accurate is a workout on Thai pads supposed to be when their positioning varies too excessively to correctly represent actual targets? At least in kata a student can create accuracy by adapting his movements to different targets of opportunity; with the Thai pads, you're stuck hitting a head that floats out a foot too far or a face that presents itself conveniently at waist level.

The point is, every training tool has its application, and kata, as much as any Thai pad workout, is no exclusion.