Tried BJJ last night

[FingerorMoon?]

I tried BJJ for the first time last night.

It was interesting. I was in the beginners class and we worked on positioning, and transitions between positions. I'm used to ground fighting but we only go full on at all times.

This has positives and negatives.
The positive is that you're used to grappling at full speed/power because thats all you do. The negative is you don't ever get a chance to refine, or try something new or that you're unsure of.

I had trouble adapting, and kept trying to do things too fast.

I'm not sure how important it is to 'put your hand in this exact position' and 'grab the collar exactly like this'. Some of this stuff seems to me exactly the sort of stuff that breaks down as soon you go full on.

I learnt a lot though in one class and enjoyed myself. I think I'll keep going back

[Boyd]

What grappling did you do before this?

Humans rule. Dolphins can suck it.

[PizDoff]

"The positive is that you're used to grappling at full speed/power because thats all you do. The negative is you don't ever get a chance to refine, or try something new or that you're unsure of."

um, you don't get to try it out slower at first?

--
Hard work, Patience, Dedication.

[NSLightsOut]

FingerorMoon?, where did you ultimately end up at?

Trust me, you get better grappling at full speed then you do starting at half speed. Just learn from what people tell you what you were doing wrong, and try to pick up as much of the technique drills as you can. It's the 'straight into the deep end' approach to learning..

The placement of hands is important because incorrect placement will set you up for submissions and sweeps.

For example: The guard

Leaving your hands above the beltline will leave you open to armlocks, leaving elbows sticking out will leave you open to Kimuras,etc.

Grips are important, as the wrong grip can be the difference between that collar choke cranking on or not. Also they can be of importance to you, as if you are grabbing the inside of your opponent's sleeve in Gi BJJ, if your opponent jerks away suddenly, you may end up with a handful of broken fingers.

Be patient. It takes time to get anywhere near half-decent.

[FingerorMoon?]

Boyd:
At the center I go to we do submission grappling but are taught to go for chokes (and a few neck cranks).

Cross body isn't used that much, we are taught mainly to achieve the mount, and when on bottom to work from the guard (either choking or attempting to reverse position.

Piz:
Nope, don't go slow at all.
The instructor started the center over 10 years ago, attempting to break away from TMA (no he is not a UFC fan at all...let me hold a UFC night for everyone there but wasn't interested in coming himself...)
The idea is that slowing things down and worrying about perfect hand positioning, etc will not help you at all when everything moves full speed with a fully resisting opponent. The idea is to explore and see what you can do while going full on.

NSlightsout:
I ended up at Dominance Jiu Jitsu
http://www.djj.com.au/
I'm travelling in the opposite direction to the traffic that time of night so its actually not a bad drive.

I'm not sure if you read my post correctly. I meant we only go full on at my current art. The BJJ I did last night slowed things down so we could understand the finer points.

Thanks for the advice.
Yeah, I am a patient person by nature. I'm not going there with the intention that I can become any good in a handful of lessons.

[FingerorMoon?]

I should add though, one of the reasons I still love Freeform is although the founder may believe what I've listed above is best, you are allowed to do anything you want while wrestling. The idea being to explore what works for you.

For the last year, I've been going (with success as well...) for armbars, shoulder locks, and leglocks (although I suck at leglocks).

[deus ex machina]

I should add though, one of the reasons I still love Freeform is although the founder may believe what I've listed above is best, you are allowed to do anything you want while wrestling. The idea being to explore what works for you.

For the last year, I've been going (with success as well...) for armbars, shoulder locks, and leglocks (although I suck at leglocks).


Add all sorts of neck cranks and you've got somethin' goin.

~
danny

"That baby better watch his mouth. I rape kids like him as part of my warm-up for raping teenagers, grown men, and eventually charging rhinos." - Boyd

[Pandinha]

Fingermoon,

Nice stuff. In the group class, it is usually fast paced, with everyone going for the submission. Pretty tiring. One on one classes, where it's slow and you have to do the moves perfect was absolute Hell. I was more tired in 30 minutes of a private with Rener, than rolling an hour in group class. At least twice as much.

Good luck with it, and keep us posted!



==================
"When we go to the ground, you are in my world. The ground is the ocean, I am the shark, and most people don't even know how to swim." RCJ Machado

[hmeboy]

"The idea is that slowing things down and worrying about perfect hand positioning, etc will not help you at all when everything moves full speed with a fully resisting opponent"

I'm not sure if you personally agree with this, but I gotta say this is a horrible training ethic. The best way to develop bad habits is to not practice a technique before attempting them in sparring (rolling). We used to do this before I seriously trained; we flailed around, tried to achieve positions with no clue on how to get there and forced submissions. It was tiring and counterproductive.

In a couple months, your ground game will improve so much, you'll be amazed; trust me!

[FingerorMoon?]

Thanks all.

Hmeboy - no I don't fully agree with it, hence
the reason I'm doing BJJ.

cheers,
FoM

[Vargas]

Yeah, good move on your part to train with a gym where they use the 'crawl-walk-run' approach to training. One of the things I notice about wrestlers who begin training at my school is that they tend to 'explode' when going for submissions and usually screw it up and either lose position or get caught up in a mad scramble that results in both guys popping back to their feet. Lots of energy being expended but little results to show for it. When drilling, you want to use a variety of speeds and intensity. When sparring (or rolling or whatever you what to call it), hell yeah, full throttle, baby! Just realize that rolling/sparring too much can make you sloppy.

Sounds like you know all this, though, and have a plan to improve. Let us know how it all works out.

[deus ex machina]

Just don't ever pick up the habit of falling on your ass/pulling guard. I will kill you.

I know this one guy who had a couple years of MT experience and some sport BJJ experience who fought in an amateur Shooto match. Thank GOd they wore head gear, and strikes to the head weren't allowed on the ground, otherwise I seriously think he'd be dead right now. He went on his back SOOOO easily it's not even funny.

~
danny

"That baby better watch his mouth. I rape kids like him as part of my warm-up for raping teenagers, grown men, and eventually charging rhinos." - Boyd

[BlackBeltNow]

i'mglad you enjoyed it. BJJ is my primary MA, but i admit my first time seeing it...i thought it was very homo. gi-BJJ looked very homo when i first saw it...

Do Be Open-minded
Don't Be Gullible
-----------------
RIP Alex Gong...

[Matt W.]

"Crawl, walk, run" doesn't mean the same thing to all people. For some it means you go slow for the first couple months/years. It means you don't spar until you've achieved a certain rank. It means you don't learn anything effective until you've proven something.

There's no need for such slowed down training at all! Beginners can and should start sparring/rolling very soon. And of course, it should be done every class. And techniques should be practiced full on against full resistance.

When I think of "crawl, walk, run" I think of it in terms of individual technique. Of course, when learning an armbar for the first time, you go through it step by step. You practice it slowly without much resistance. But after a few minutes or an hour of that (if you've not moved on to another technique) it's stime to start trying it full speed against reistance. And then after that you should be trying it while rolling. That's how crawl, walk, run should work, IMO.

Regards,
Matt

Carl: So, where we goin'?
Lenny: Ape Island. I hate Ape Island!
Carl: Why's that?
Lenny: It's full of giant apes. I wish we were going to Candy Apple Island!
Carl: Why? What's on Candy Apple Island?
Lenny: Apes. But they're not as big.

[Fisting Kittens]

There are lots of ways to train and lots of different results, it all depends on what you are after.

Matt W: its good to see you have unshakable opinions after a lengthy 6 months of training. fantastic.

If you start off by running full speed ahead, you will get a moderate level of proficiency really fucking quickly. You'll likey never go beyond this level, but that is all some people want. Like Muay Thai guys who want a little ground game for example.

The approach that Vargas layed out is of course the best compromise between rapid skill development and long term technique development. If you are in it for the long haul this is the best way to train.

However the crawl, walk, run scenario that Matt W layed out can work too (though its not for me). I've known several guys who trained this approach and after several years they ended up being a lot fucking better than most everyone else I know. They has the strongest understanding of principles and could pull of moves that most of us would look at and immediately dismmiss as too impractical. Of course for the first 2+ years of their training they sucked pretty bad. But it all depends on what you want to get out of training. There isn't one right way to learn martial arts.

---------
I have discovered the true essence of Bullshido: To crush your enemies. See them driven before you. And hear the lamentation of their women.
In short: to flame.

[thomasaaron]

I got a BJJ last night.