Grabbing the Clavicle

[PizDoff]

from


http://www.ufc.tv/learnUFC/rulesUfc.asp

13. Grabbing the clavicle.




has this ever happenned in a MMA match?
or do you have experiance with it?
DISCUSS!

--
Hard work, Patience, Dedication.

[Blad3]

One thing to remember is that the UFC in particular has some unnecessary rules, which are just there to ensure added safety of the fighters, who are almost definitely going to get pretty beat up anyway.

Out of all these illgeal moves (minus elbows, whch is just so ridiculous; that the UFC don't allow the point of the elbow), the only one that I've ever really heard effectively working is the chin in the eye from side mount. Though that wasn't even in the UFC.

Do I have experience with it? Yes, sometimes begginers try to do it, I've tried to do it - it'll just serve to get you submitted alot of the time. Holding around the neck however, can be a very effective thing when you're in somebodies guard, allwoign you to pass it and/ore rain down strikes, as long as you look out for the armbar/triangle.



"If you don't know how to Grapple/Wrestle you don't know how to fight, that's the prerequisite to fighting" - David Tank Abbott. (http://www.bisons.net/bisons/training/necessity_of_competition.html)

Edited by - Blade Windu on July 30 2003 14:05:01

Edited by - Blade Windu on July 30 2003 17:47:28

[Tong Po]

A downward thrust done with enough force could break the clavicle, but to actually breaking the clavicle must be done with precision. You must strike not with the fleshly part of the palm, but with the wrist. The wrist is composed of 8 bones; the trapezium, the trapezoid, the capitate, the scaphoid, the hamate, the lunate, the triquetrum, and the pisiform.

Impact must be made with the portion of the wristbone called the pisiform, which is the small but pointed bone on the outside of the wrist. The pisiform is located above the triquetrum; these two bones are quite durable when striking a floating bone such as the clavicle.

But this particular strike requires too much precision to execute succesfully in a real fight. If your opponent is helpless and on the ground, such a strike would be effective. In standup, not so much. In real fighting, people tend to flop around like fish... better to do a powerful strike that requires minimal gross motor skill that is quite effective; a palm strike to the invisible triangle (nose, philtrum, mouth, jaw) would work better.

In a real fight, strike hard and fast but don't get caught up in the technical. You'll be half-paralized by adrenaline anyway, the best bet is to keep it cool and simple.

[Blad3]

"In real fighting, people tend to flop around like fish" lol.

"In a real fight, strike hard and fast but don't get caught up in the technical. You'll be half-paralized by adrenaline anyway, the best bet is to keep it cool and simple." yeah and when you go to the ground try to get back up - I'm sure you'll both want to.


"If you don't know how to Grapple/Wrestle you don't know how to fight, that's the prerequisite to fighting" - David Tank Abbott. (http://www.bisons.net/bisons/training/necessity_of_competition.html)

[PizDoff]

so they have it for "no reason"
as it hasn't really been done yet

--
Hard work, Patience, Dedication.

[Tong Po]

I would do whatever he is unfamiliar with.

[Omar]

I can't figure out why grabbing the clavicle would be illegal. There are certain ways it is usefull. You have to kind of rake downward on it but it doesn't casue serious injury, just dops a guy to his knees if you do it right.

I've never heard of anyone actually 'breaking' it . . .unless you mean the way you 'break' someones arm in an armbar, you dislocate it. You would want to smash downwards with a hammer fist or downward back-hand and hit near the sternum. THAT's where it can be dislocated and, I am told, is the most painful 'broken' bone you can get.

...the people can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders...tell them they are being attacked, and denounce the pacifists for lack of patriotism, and exposing the country to greater danger."-- Herman Goering at the Nuremberg trials

[Nihilanthic]

Silva slammed Sakuraba and broke Saku's clavicle.

<Me> John, what do you know about Zen Buddhism? <John> *smacks me*
<John> I'd have to smack you sometime...

[mikus]

Isn't the clavicle "designed" to break, to take impact pressure off your arm? I'd think that it'd be very easy to break with a good elbow strike... anyone have any experience with this?

I'm gonna fight, fight, fight, fight, fight and destruct the world.

[Jarmis]

No Holds Barred, (NHB)
Used to refer to fighting contests with few rules.

Does this seem odd to any one else?

----
Pseudo science has some science behind it, they just give it funny names.

[Omar]

I guess it seems like you could break it but dislocating it is so much easier. The problem with an elbow strike is that to break it you would need to be hitting downward. It would just be tricky, that's all.

I'm not sure if it's designed top take pressure off but it IS the only skeletal connection between your arm and the rest of your body.

...the people can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders...tell them they are being attacked, and denounce the pacifists for lack of patriotism, and exposing the country to greater danger."-- Herman Goering at the Nuremberg trials

[Blad3]

"so they have it for "no reason"
as it hasn't really been done yet"

Basically Yes but:

why they have any rules at all isn't just to do with Zuffa/the UFC - it's to do with the states etc, and making it more publically acceptable. MMA and grappling may be devastatingly effective and powerful, but there's a limit to what the general public and the goverment will want to see. remeber orgianlly the UFC was banned in 49(?) States.

"If you don't know how to Grapple/Wrestle you don't know how to fight, that's the prerequisite to fighting" - David Tank Abbott. (http://www.bisons.net/bisons/training/necessity_of_competition.html)

Edited by - Blade Windu on July 30 2003 17:44:11

[gojuJKDdude]

the clavicle AKA collar bone is very easy to break. It is the most common injury in car accidents and is targeted by many martial arts (empty hand or weapon). I like a hammer fist strike best to target the clavicle.

[FingerorMoon?]

Guys,

UFC and PRIDE are not 'No Holds Barred'
This term is outdated and is no longer really used. Thats why its called Mixed Martial Arts now.

It is sport.
It is the best fucking sport around if you ask me.
It is not street fighting.

The original idea of the UFC was to have something closely resembling street fighting. Thats not the case today.

Hence, moves that may badly injure the fighter and hence stop them fighting in another up coming event are illegal.

[PizDoff]

i thought the collarbone was easier to break....

no matter



"Silva slammed Sakuraba and broke Saku's clavicle."
i knew this would come up, only clavicle injury i know of
did he? i thought Sak shoot in and bonked himself on silva

--
Hard work, Patience, Dedication.

[Rogue]

If they actually mean grab there is a nerve that runs inside the clavicle that's painful, but that shouldn't harm anybody. If you know an easy trick you can even get a hold on the clavicle. I've used it a few times with the nerve as a control but I can't think of a reason why the grab would be outlawed. Then if you got the grab maybe someone who is pretty strong could break it. Still I don't see that happening.