Staying on my feet

[thomasaaron]

I want to be the best at full-contact stand-up fighting as I can be, mostly because I think that ground-fighting is limited in real-world situations.

But, I confess, a ground fighter can knacker my arse if he takes me to the ground. How can I keep him from doing so?

Fighting Spirit is 90% of the battle. If you don't have it, you ain't shit -- regardless of what style you practice.

[HAPKO3]

By training grappling.

The only way you can keep standing reliably, is if you learn how to wrestle.

------------------------
I remain, Hapko3

[thomasaaron]

Which style, then, has the most comprehensive array of takedown techniques? BJJ, Judo, Wrestling? I've only got so much time for training, and I'd like to make the most of it.

Fighting Spirit is 90% of the battle. If you don't have it, you ain't shit -- regardless of what style you practice.

[Simps]

Judo's got some great takedowns. Arguably the best groud game as well.

Simps

[Beatdown Richie]

From what I've seen so far, takedowns in BJJ are underdeveloped compared to other arts (which is fine, since BJJ focusses on groundfighting, and as you say, there is only so much time for training).

Judo is a very good choice if you assume you'll be fighting someone with robust clothes. Also, the mindset in judo may be different from BJJ - more like "dammit, you will not throw me" rather than "it's okay to go to the ground, but on my terms".

I haven't done wrestling, but as far as I can tell, it is very good for no-gi fighting.

And no, I will not bite the "best ground game" bait ;-)

[blankslate]

Wrestling and Judo

[CrimsonTiger]

You guys do realize that judo has a REALLY great variety of non-gi type throws? Arm throws, leg take-downs, neck and head throws. Even the basic hip throw doesn't actually use the gi. It uses the hip and the arm.

In fact, I never use the gi. I usually lose in my competitions and matches in the dojo, but I'm pretty good when the gi tops come off.

Regards,
CrimsonTiger

"Good is the enemy of Great" - T-shirt seen on Queen Street, Toronto

[Beatdown Richie]

Yes. However, if you train with the gi all the time, and suddenly you don't have it, you're out of your element. (That's what it was like for me when I recently went to my first submission grappling tournament, with very little preparation. I was like, okay, now where do I pull to get the kuzushi?)
Grabbing, pulling and off-balancing with and without the gi are two different games. Thus, while the hip throw itself does not require the gi, you may not get to the position to pull it off in the first place.

As for leg takedowns, I haven't seen them practiced a lot in judo. They exist, but...

[Dr_Santo]

I study eskrima and we have great grappling techniques and as well as throws and defense agains other graplers. If you find a good eskrima or arnis fighter, ask for techniques.

Ground fighting is just using your fighting technique in the ground, that means, from other perspective. Just practice your moves being in the ground while someone helps you kicking your ass from above. It really helps.

There's no secret to ground fighting, just get really close and play dirty (go for the crotch, the knees, the BALLZ!) and try to stand up fast.

[9chambers]

Judo and Jiu Juitsu have cool takedowns and throws but if you are going to learn how to avoid being thrown then take wrestling. The stance alone negates half the throws in Judo. Also, if you are a student in high school it is free. If you are in college there is most likely a cheap wrestling club .. or you can be on the team. Sit the bench if you don't make the team, learn the moves. It is pretty inexpensive. There are also camps sometimes during the summer and there are a few good books on the fundamentals out there.

[Beatdown Richie]

9chambers: from what I've seen, the wrestling stance is very crouched and forward-leaning. While this is good for takedown defense, and fine once contact has been made, it will earn you lots of punches and kicks to the head and limit your own ability to strike and kick efficiently. If I understand thomasaaron correctly, he wants something to complement standup striking, not replace it.

If any of this reasoning is wrong, please correct me.

[BigRod]

Here's some advice to avoid being taken down:

(1)Keep your distance. More distance equals a longer and harder entry for the grappler. You can catch him with knees or just push him off as they come in. (2) Circle. Do not just stand still or move forward and back. A moving target is hard to get ahold of.

[BigRod]

Here's my 2cents on the best way to acheive your goal, which seems avoiding the ground, not being a master groundfighter. Learn wrestling.

Wrestling has the best takedowns, Period. You will learn how to take people down, avoid takedowns, and gain advantageous position on the ground. That's all you really need. You get on top and punch the shit of out of him. Simple.

No place to wrestle? Then I suggest no-gi sub wrestling. If that's not available, then BJJ.

If you decide to become a master groundfighter, than take BJJ. BJJ/submission wrestling has the best ground game, Not judo. Judo is the strongest at GI throws, not takedowns or no-gi throwing. The best at no gi throws is Greco-Roman wrestling. Not to say that Judo isnt good, but modern day Judo works out in a gi (and people generally have some kind of clothes on, so it's still very useful), and does not place a strong emphasis on groundwork. Although with the NHB craze that may be changing.

[mikus]

It really really depends on what kind of judo club you find. If you find a good one that isn't too tournament oriented, I think it'd be hard to find something better.

"Winona Ryder? Going inside her." - MC Paul Barman

[mikus]

Oh yeah, but if you take judo, definately experiment with it. Try things out with street clothes etc etc etc and see how things change.

"Winona Ryder? Going inside her." - MC Paul Barman

[J-kid]

Judo
Wrestling
BJJ
Sambo
all good choices