What qualifies people to make their own style?

[Toby Christensen]

I would say a blackbelt/certificate etc in a certain style would be sufficient plus applying the simpler techniques one has used from a certain style in real life. Even verifiable streetfighting experience would be good (as in Marc Macyoung.

To be fair to people like Jerry Peterson and Phil Elmore, Jerry Peterson uses techniques from lowlevel kung fu which is SOMETHING. Phil Elmore has some experience in Wing Chun, but I feel Phil has not yet reached a level of proficiency in Wing Chun to go making his own style (although he PWNS Kungfoolss, which is of course commendable :icon_tong )

I personally would like to publish a manual on wrestling and self defence for people with mobility impairments similar to mine (because the lack of training opportunities around here is driving me bugshit) but I'm the first to say that I'm not experienced enough.

Debate, please.

[Hannibal]

There really is no need to 'make' or create another style of martial arts.

Everything that can be done in martial arts HAS been done, be it striking or grappling,groundfighting,standup. Its all been thought of. Shit its no secret. At the end of the day we've all got 2 arms and 2 legs.

There are only so many different ways to punch and kick someone.
There are only so many different ways to pick up and throw someone.

[MrMcFu]

Hannibal versus Angry_Spastic

Discuss.

[Toby Christensen]

There really is no need to 'make' or create another style of martial arts.

Everything that can be done in martial arts HAS been done, be it striking or grappling,groundfighting,standup. Its all been thought of. Shit its no secret. At the end of the day we've all got 2 arms and 2 legs.

There are only so many different ways to punch and kick someone.
There are only so many different ways to pick up and throw someone.


Very true.

[Ryuu]

There really is no need to 'make' or create another style of martial arts.

Everything that can be done in martial arts HAS been done, be it striking or grappling,groundfighting,standup. Its all been thought of. Shit its no secret. At the end of the day we've all got 2 arms and 2 legs.

There are only so many different ways to punch and kick someone.
There are only so many different ways to pick up and throw someone.

true, yet people still do that. makes you wonder why...

[Hannibal]

Mcfu don't be a shit. I was just commenting on what AS said, thats all.

[lifetime]

Hannibal does have a point. Any new innovations in martial arts are going to be philosophical revisions rather than fighting revolutions. There was a thread on the Dog Brothers steering towards FMA entry into MMA competition. That would be interesting, but at the end of the day the biggest differences you'll probably find are in the way people think about fights or train for competition rather than something weird like finding a new use for your thighs or something.

[Leo]

the answer is somewhere in the middle here...

YES.... there is a lot of information and knowledge out there so you should question whether there is a need for new systems at all.

BUT..... as variables change so should the concepts and techniques... they very often dont in existing training programmes and as a result some people see the need to create their own schools for the purposes of development and discovery.

If the old schools are unable to drop what is obsolete or accept the requirements of a new society then there is a need to break-free from that mentality. ALL well run organisations with an interest in developing human skills seek new information and new perspectives.

In reference to Hannibals point.. it takes a LOT of traning to get from the point where you believe that a kick is just a kick.. through the stage of realising that is isn't... BACK to the point where it just becomes a kick again.

In reference to AS's point about a black belt being enough.... NOPE... I have a couple of Dan grades in TMA's and they are to me the equivalent of knowing the alphabet in a writing class. They allow me to understand the basis and building blocks of the art and provide the platform for real learning to begin.

That's my long way of saying... it depends... it depends on the motivation, skill level and the individual. If they have talent and something to say then let them go and either take on-board their findings in their new system or consign them to the bin.

[Ryuu]

as variables change so should the concepts and techniques... they very often dont in existing training programmes and as a result some people see the need to create their own schools for the purposes of development and discovery.

...and then there are the assholes who do it for money...

[Leo]

Yep... absolutely. That's why I mentioned motivation in my last paragraph.

In the US particularly it seems to be the assholes looking for financial gain or ego masturbation which are in the majority when it comes to launching their own schools or systems. To a large extent it all turned to shit when people realised there was money to be made in MA's.

[Ronin]

The only reason to "create" a system is too make money.
To give yourself that coveted "creator of asswipe-jutsu" title.

Every system out there ends up being "customised" to one extend ot another so...

If I was to take all I know and start calling it "ronin-jutsu", I would be doing it for no other reason but to make myself look good.
I could just as easily call it MMA or kick-boxing, or karate or Judo or jujutsu or any of the other " generic" names that have been around for so long.

[Leo]

These days ego is definitely a factor and a cause.. but I don't think it applies to everyone who makes a break from existing practices/schools/politics and looks for something new.

The need to inflate ego and seek monetary gain from MA is a fairly recent trend brought about largely by the popularisation of the eastern MA's in the 70's. Before then there was relatively little money to be made.

[DubhGhaill]

I think you need to assess new styles, and instructors in general, on a case by case basis. Try these two imaginary instructors for practice.

Case 1: Erik Blade has been called by many a Martial Arts prodigy. He earned Black Belts in both Tae Kwon Do and Hapkido before the age of 17, has a University degree in Human Movement and has now founded his own style at the age of just 23. His style is Hwa Rang Jitsu.

Case 2: Jim Doyle wrestled in high school, boxed at an amature level for three years in his twenties and has also played some Judo. He has no Black Belts or formal coaching qualifications, but served two tours of Vietnam and twenty years as a NYC police officer. He thinks the concept of "Martial Arts Styles" is a bit silly, but has written a short handbook on "Self Defense" and will happily show a few tricks to anyone who wants to learn (as long as they've been keeping their nose clean).

Which one is more qualified?

[Ronin]

Neither.

[DubhGhaill]

I understand that neither of them are well qualified to teach professionally, but I'd be interested in what the old cop had to say.

[Phrost]

Unless people grow an extra limb or through technology gain abilities they didn't previously have, there's no need for creating a new style. It's all about ego gratification and marketing.