Minors no longer eligible for death penalty in America:

[Judah Maccabee]

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=578&e=1&u=/nm/20050301/ts_nm/court_execution_juveniles_dc

SCOTUS decision with the usual suspects voting in the usual fashion.

WASHINGTON (Reuters) - A closely divided U.S. Supreme Court (news - web sites) on Tuesday abolished the death penalty for those who were under the age of 18 when they committed murder, a major victory for opponents of capital punishment.

By a 5-4 vote, the high court declared unconstitutional the juvenile death penalty, a decision that could affect about 70 death row inmates who face execution for crimes done when they were 16 or 17 years old.


Chief Justice William Rehnquist (news - web sites) and Justices Sandra Day O'Connor (news - web sites), Antonin Scalia (news - web sites) and Clarence Thomas (news - web sites) dissented from the ruling.

Years ago in Chicago, a grad school class at Northwestern U. looked at the cases of over a dozen Death Row inmates, found errors, and got them exonerated. This wasn't a case of the justice system correcting itself, this was a bunch of "kids" pushing the system on its mistakes that would have resulted in the death of over a dozen innocent men.

Ever since then, I've been extremely leery of the death penalty as a punishment for crimes. I see this as a step in the right direction.

[Peter H.]

Ever since then, I've been extremely leery of the death penalty as a punishment for crimes. I see this as a step in the right direction.

Unfortunately, I know of a gang banger who is on the streets today after commiting murder, assualt, rape (of his own brother), abandoning his child, and theft. He admits to all of it, but did most of it before he was 18, and was treated a juvenile, got out and has commited more crimes. He fled town about tow years ago when he got into more trouble and was going to be sent back to jail for violating his parole.

[IzzyDaHedgehog]

I'm going to take advantage of being a minor if Steve doesn't make that thing in his sig stop flashing.

EDIT: Dank u.

[NextGuard]

Yeah it was weird for us to be on the list with North Korea and Iran as countries that execute children.

[Judah Maccabee]

I'm all for trying and sentencing legal minors as adults if the court finds it justifiable. Life imprisonment or long term imprisonment, np chance for parole. I also believe in bringing back "chain gangs" and enhancing "work programs" to make the cons pay for some of their keep and giving some decent skills when they get out so they're not a repeat offender.

But death penalty? Like I said, it's just too scary to think of implications. Hell, they just exonerated a guy in Chicago, sentenced to life who was in jail for over 20 years because of faulty eyewitness testimony. DNA evidence got him out. G-d forbid that he was sentenced to death. Except maybe in California, most states don't have that long of a process for death row. At least he was able to still be alive.

[NextGuard]

I'm all for trying and sentencing legal minors as adults if the court finds it justifiable. Life imprisonment or long term imprisonment, np chance for parole. I also believe in bringing back "chain gangs" and enhancing "work programs" to make the cons pay for some of their keep and giving some decent skills when they get out so they're not a repeat offender.

.


Chain gangs - i.e. forced prison labor gets awfully close to slavery and behavior we codemn when other countries do it.

[Peter H.]

I want restrictions on the death penalty, plenty of them. We've had this discussion before here, so I won't cover that again, other than to say, I don't see a difference between life imprisonment with no parole and the death penalty.

But a blanket ban on executing minors just because they happen to be under 18 doesn't sit right with me. If some commits a crime, and is given his due process and tried like an adult, he should get the same punishment options an adult gets.

The guy I brought up was tried as a JV even when he could have been tried as an adult. But I knew his brother, and him. I can honestly say he is one of the few people I know personally that the world would be a better place if his ass had been planted when the State had the chance.

[NextGuard]

Well 18 is an arbitrary limit- maturities vary. But if you argue that minors can form adult intent and assume adult responsibilities and punishment how can we also say they can't vote or decide about sex or pornography or drinking.

I already think its irrational to say we can execute an 18 year old, sleep with an 18 year old, have 18 year olds serve in the military and possibly kill but not let them have a beer.

[Judah Maccabee]

Chain gangs - i.e. forced prison labor gets awfully close to slavery and behavior we codemn when other countries do it.

I just read on the topic for 20 minutes and saw how it can manifest in such a way. It's a topic I'll need to look at further.

===

The SCOTUS argued that there was compelling evidence to suggest that minor status overall is enough of a factor to mitigate the death penalty, and they used international precedent as justification. I'd be interested in seeing those arguments.

[Peter H.]

Well 18 is an arbitrary limit- maturities vary. But if you argue that minors can form adult intent and assume adult responsibilities and punishment how can we also say they can't vote or decide about sex or pornography or drinking.

I already think its irrational to say we can execute an 18 year old, sleep with an 18 year old, have 18 year olds serve in the military and possibly kill but not let them have a beer.

I agree, in some ways. I just wish I knew a good answer. Some people are ready to assume adult responsibilities at 13, some try to act like they are ready at that age too. I know some 40+ year olds that aren't ready to assume the responsibility of owning a hamster.

Other social dependent age restrictions (drinking, sex, so on) are all more debateable in my mind than crime. If you are willing to commit the crime, then you must be willing to accept the punishent for doing so. Of course there are exceptions for those not capable of forming the requisite intent or not capable of understanding the consequence of their actions. But the average teenager is more than capable of understanding cause and effect and knowing that there is a penalty for violating the law, and that penalty could in fact be the termination of your own life.

[Ray Nelson]

Crap.

Now what are Texans going to watch for fun?

[Peter H.]

Crap.

Now what are Texans going to watch for fun?

People from Michigan try to rodeo. About the same odds of somebody dieing.

[TylerDurden]

The difference between life with no parole and death is if the system made a mistake they can let a lifer go free. And in far too many cases they are finding they need to do just that. It's always better to have that margin for error.

[Peter H.]

I know the conceptualt difference. I wish I could recall the actual statistics, but the difference in the average time spent in jail for L w/o P was only a few years longer than the time spent on death row.

[NextGuard]

Crap.

Now what are Texans going to watch for fun?


Well they are probably gonna watch their former governor appoint 2-3 members of the supreme court and perhaps overturn this.

[Leodom]

Does this mean that gangs will use their minor members for hits? "You cap 'im Joe, I'm 18 & I'll get the chair, you won't"