Ok, what is this "deadly martial art" "street effectiveness" etc. crap?

[El-Wood]

I am a bit curious. I did not get into the martial arts (ok I was a wrestler for about 20 years but that was a "sport" not a "martial art") until about a year and a half ago when I moved to Japan.

Now being a board troll, enjoying watching MMA, having gotten into karate, etc. I happened on Sherdogs forums and eventually found my way here thanks to Asshat Kim. After reading the boards I enjoy the general atmosphere and the fact that there is general good natured humor etc. and that you are trying to debunk a lot of the general crap that goes on (I had a ex-girlfriend who was very into bullshido - probably still is).

So I have to ask, my only experience with the martial arts is some Judo and then Kyokushin karate. Neither one of these was advertised in any way as being "street lethal" "dangerous" "effective" etc. They are sports you compete in. I had always wanted to try Judo after seeing it in the olympics, and it was fun but I kept falling back on my old wrestling skillset and it was in a really inconvenient location/time so I joined a local karate club. It just happens (pure luck, I told my wife to find out if there was a karate club at the community center that is a 5 minute walk from our house) that this club was a Kyokushin club. The club is very straight forward though - it's not teaching deadly street fighting it is teaching with the goal of competing in the local tournaments (the fact that the head instructor who is 20+ years older then I am and 70+lbs lighter could probably give me a good run for my money in a street fight and is in the sort of shape most 20 year olds want to be in never mind someone who's almost 60 not withstanding). In fact I have spent the last 2 months playing punching bag for a group of very tallented young people who are going to be competing in one of the biggest jr. tournaments in the country in a few weeks.

I just have to wonder where all this "street lethal" "deadly" etc. etc. etc. crap came from? Is there some history to it or is it just a marketing thing someone put out there that gullible people took as gospel? Is it ok to train in say TKD if all you are interested in is competing in TKD tournaments? I mean TKD is huge over here and is entirely tournament focused. etc. etc. etc.

[supercrap]

That's a good observation... The actually 'street lethal and deadly' arts or the arts that produce the most practical results (judo, kyokushin, MT, BJJ etc) rarely advertise that way...

Yet every kung fu or TKD system under the sun will claim to teach you how to murder someone in 3 simple steps... I mean come on... Are you really going to put your finger into someone's eye socket and rip out jelly globules? Kick someone so hard their testicles explode? Elbow someone in the spine repeatedly until they are paralysed for life for god's sake?

[It is Fake]

n I just have to wonder where all this "street lethal" "deadly" etc. etc. etc. crap came from? Is there some history to it or is it just a marketing thing someone put out there that gullible people took as gospel? Is it ok to train in say TKD if all you are interested in is competing in TKD tournaments? I mean TKD is huge over here and is entirely tournament focused. etc. etc. etc.

It is a common phrase used for an excuse why ______art doesn't compete or spar. It is also a marketing technique used for many systems. Usually involves learning t3h d34dly in a small amoun of time, on the internet, through video, and without resisting opponents. If you are taking a sport for a sport that is fine. Just don't lie to your students and say it is street lethal or deadly.


I have to disagree with your wrestling reference. Yeah it is a sport but there is nothing wrong with falling back on techniques that work. Who ever told you that was wrong.

[El-Wood]

I have to disagree with your wrestling reference. Yeah it is a sport but there is nothing wrong with falling back on techniques that work. Who ever told you that was wrong.

Noone told me anything. I look at wrestling as a sport. The fact that it gives me a good skillset to fall back on is beside the point. If I can convince his mother that he won't get hurt I want to start training my oldest to wrestle. He's only a year or so younger then I was when I started.

[It is Fake]

Noone told me anything. I look at wrestling as a sport. The fact that it gives me a good skillset to fall back on is beside the point. If I can convince his mother that he won't get hurt I want to start training my oldest to wrestle. He's only a year or so younger then I was when I started.


I think wrestling is good base to start into grappling. I think your learning curve would be a lot higher.

[Reikon]

Noone told me anything. I look at wrestling as a sport. The fact that it gives me a good skillset to fall back on is beside the point. If I can convince his mother that he won't get hurt I want to start training my oldest to wrestle. He's only a year or so younger then I was when I started.

To quote Osiris:

yeh, if you wrestle, you'll get hurt. period.

[Matadon]

That's debatable; I mean, any sport can lead to injury, but if you're not wrestling competitively, you can always tap out. In fact, that's the best thing about wrestling/BJJ/whatever -- you can go at it all-out, and still go to work the next day, because all you're doing is position work. You don't actually break arms, legs, ankles, and so on when training, but stop just short.

Where in Japan do you live? I'm looking at moving there in about two years, just to become fluent at Japanese (I'm only on my second year[1]), and would jump at the chance to take Kyokushin -- it looks like fun, seems pretty effective, and a lot of the footwork looks similar to boxing/kickboxing. That, and it would be great to study 'real' Karate, as compared to the crap you find in the States where you never actually hit each other (for the most part).

[1] That is, enough, to get pissed at all the Asian-wannabes and morons who quote Anime.

[El-Wood]

The worst I ever hurt wrestling was getting my nose broken and hyperextending my fingers.

I live in BFE Kanagawa prefecture. The closest real town to me is Hon-Atsugi but I'm a good 20 minutes by car and 30-45 minutes by bus from town - the nice thing is I'm up in the mountains and get to clean up the garbage when the goddamned monkeys decide to come down the hill looking for an easy meal because its snowing. Unfortunately I have no frame of reference to compare my club and any other in Japan or the US.

Are you looking at a college exchange program? A friends son did one for a year and really enjoyed it.

I wonder what it means that I had never seen an anime cartoon until I moved here...

[Ippatsu182]

I would say it has all to do with the marketing of the arts. In the States, people are afraid of being attacked by random strangers (e.g. the Pizza parlor incident in Ohio).

Relatively speaking, Japan is a safe country, so people are less interested in self-defense and more interested in becoming stronger. When I saw an ad for Seidokaikan Karate, it stressed the physical aspect and on "becoming stronger."

Another thing is organization. The martial arts organizations in Japan are very structured. And because of this, there are many competitions where practicing martial artists enter and test their skills.

By the way, Kanagawa isn't that far from Tokyo. We're having a throwdown on Sunday, March 6th. I'd love for you to come. We've got some Kyokushin guys coming and some grapplers. Here's a link: http://www.bullshido.net/forums/showthread.php?t=20315

[Matadon]

The worst I ever hurt wrestling was getting my nose broken and hyperextending my fingers.

I live in BFE Kanagawa prefecture. The closest real town to me is Hon-Atsugi but I'm a good 20 minutes by car and 30-45 minutes by bus from town - the nice thing is I'm up in the mountains and get to clean up the garbage when the goddamned monkeys decide to come down the hill looking for an easy meal because its snowing. Unfortunately I have no frame of reference to compare my club and any other in Japan or the US.

Are you looking at a college exchange program? A friends son did one for a year and really enjoyed it.

I wonder what it means that I had never seen an anime cartoon until I moved here...

I'd like to do a student exchange, but the only programs offered through my university are open pretty much ONLY to international business majors. It's bullshit of the highest order; they'll send people who have never taken a semester of Japanese, over to Japan to take classes IN ENGLISH, but won't send a Math major who, at the time of departure, would have three years' Japanese study under his belt, a genuine interest in the language and culture, as well as friends in Oosaka and Toukyou. *sigh*

So I'll probably end up either going for JET, a private English school, or something along those lines, after I graduate. I don't think my Japanese will be up to par for me to be a UNIX sysadmin over in Japan by then (although my resume is long enough), nor would it be good enough for me to translate technical documentation. After a few years' exposure, all that could change.

Any tips or suggestions?

[El-Wood]

I'd love to go to the throwdown but Saturday is "family" day (never mind the minimum of 1 1/2 horus each way to get to Tokyo and back).

Edit: Never mind I fixed it.

BTW - does the US have the same urban legend that doing Karate will stunt your kid's growth?

[Ippatsu182]

I'd love to go to the throwdown but Saturday is "family" day (never mind the minimum of 1 1/2 horus each way to get to Tokyo and back).

Actually, it's on Sunday, not Saturday. But I understand that it's kind of out of the way. Maybe you can join us next time.

[Meex]

Hey I went 3.700 miles to a throwdown. . .what's your problem?
I took my wife, and she went shopping for a few hours. . .
what woman wouldn't love shopping the Ginza???
:toothy9:

**
As for t3H d34d1y. . .pure marketing. In a real sense, if you could
do that, wouldn't you keep it a secret? I would.

`~/

[El-Wood]

lol, I'm going to be in Tokyo on the 10th but it's a business trip/dinner... :( Yeah maybe next time.

And my wife loves shopping in Ginza - but someone has to watch the 2 little monsters while she's shopping and that someone is me... Although practicing stinky baby-fu at a throwdown would be interesting.

[Shadowdh]

LOL with stinky baby fu you would win hands down... ;)

[Meex]

lol, I'm going to be in Tokyo on the 10th but it's a business trip/dinner... :( Yeah maybe next time.

And my wife loves shopping in Ginza - but someone has to watch the 2 little monsters while she's shopping and that someone is me... Although practicing stinky baby-fu at a throwdown would be interesting.
Don't they have rent-a-nanny in Japan? Get one, and take them with you, so you know their okay, don't have to watch them, but can still be near.
:toothy9:
`~/