Missing the point.

[Bizzaro Root]

Yes his name is Michael Flatley, the fastest dancer ever on record. He was recorded doing 30 taps in one second!

Combining Riverdancing skills and MA skills makes for some d3adley footwork! ;-)


also a golden gloves champ from 1975 at 135 in chi town and its 35 taps a second which in my opion would own you kempo dude and the other kung-fu pansy here all at once.

the ma know as the river dance has now joined the high ranks of bjj, mt and judo.

[Phrost]

Dochter gets a standing ovation from the academy of science for his work on the evolution of "The Correct".

The only reason BJJ and Muay Thai get respect around here is because they actually test their skills against live opponents.

If Muay Thai gyms started teaching forms and stopped sparring, they'd lose this respect.

[jaychiu]

maybe it's me.... i'll definately get told so in any case.

It isn't the art that sucks.
It isn't the school that sucks.
It isnt the sensei that sucks.
If anything sucks, it's you. You are uncommited, uncoordinated, and untrainable. If you do not put forth the effort to learn, the effort to train, and the desire to become a true student, you will not succeed.

I'm tired of reading this BB and seeing 'wing chun/bujinko/TKD/etc sucks and BJJ and MT are 't3h d34d|y' ... ' your art is only as good as you train to be.

Here's my vote that a dedicated vingtsunner can whup a lazy BJJer.

I understand that i'm a newbie to this group, and am subject to severe criticism for this thread, but i stand by my sentiments.

:angry7:

kd

</rant>

You are confusing too things here - the individual practioner and the Art, the set of techniques.

There are certain arts which teaches techniques that are highly questionable with [?]ing [?]un being one of them. (Not to pick on this art but it is one that you mentioned.) It is the techniques that are often questioned, the trapping, the chain punching, the anti-grappling and how effective this is for the average practioner.

While there may be certain individuals gifted with the attributes to make these [?]ing [?]un tehcniques work, this does not validate the art as a whole. Just as the lazy, out of shape BJJ student doesn't invalidate the art of BJJ as a whole.

This is why repeatable results of the art working is often asked for here. Video proof with non cooperative combatants where there is recognizable techniques from the art showing that the set of techniques works as advertised.

This is why BJJ, MT, Judo, Boxing, etc., get so much respect on this board. There are tons of evidence of the techniques working against fully resisting opponents using recognizable techniques from these arts.

Unfortunately, the same cannot be said for [?]ing [?]sun.

[punchingdummy]

As mentioned this forum's only bias is towards efficacy.
Most of the moderators and I believe all of the admins have roots in "TMA's" and not all of them disregard those roots like I do my own in tma's.

On the other hand it is entirely possible that with proper training "even Wing Chun" can be effective. The issue is that alive training is like kryptonite to most of these arts.

Ask yourself some questions:
Do you spar?
How often?
What are the rules?
Do they exclude some important aspect of your preferred range (striking but no clinching etc.)?
Is outside competition encouraged?
Which is more important: efficacy or aesthetics?

Certainly some people have different goals for ma training and don't care about learning to fight and defend themselves; however, if you do there are very specific answers to these questions. The reasons that boxing, judo, wrestling, bjj, mt, etc. are favored here is that most of the time they answer correctly.

While I agree with just about everything in your post, there is a point about the bais towards BJJ and MT. Your last post hits it on the head, but that is often communicated on this board as "BJJ and MT". Bullshido's reputation of having this bias towards two very specific styles does not add credibility when calling Bullshido on other styles.

What is important (in addition to the items you already cited above) is training both stand-up and ground, competition and street, conditioning and technique. It is not important that it be BJJ or MT. They are both excellent, but the nutridding needs to be managed to a dull roar.

[Dochter]

Bullshido's reputation of having this baised towards two very specific styles does not add credibility when calling Bullshido on other styles.

It is not important that it be BJJ or MT. They are both excellent, but the nutridding needs to be managed to a dull roar.
Agreed and agreed. However that reputation is because of people who can't fight complaining about some bias. If they showed up somewhere and fought (like our kung fu buddy omega) no one would care what they do.

One difference between this board and others I've seen is the "nutriding" here is more often (or more vocally) done as affectation which while often humorous and done for a point can be tiresome. In example the recent "nutriding" (I hate that damn term) by Aesopian was done for specific reasons. Similarly Deus's own version woke up at least one person.

[JohnnyCache]

maybe it's me.... i'll definately get told so in any case.

It isn't the art that sucks.
It isn't the school that sucks.
It isnt the sensei that sucks.
If anything sucks, it's you. You are uncommited, uncoordinated, and untrainable. If you do not put forth the effort to learn, the effort to train, and the desire to become a true student, you will not succeed.




Dude, not always.

A bad student can ruin good instruction . . . but bad instruction CAN also ruin good students.

And not that many people on this board actually do and/or advocate BJJ and MT.

The 'lol sorry i do an art you don't like guess i should just do BJJ and MT like U' school of argument is getting as tired as anything else this board hears everyday. . .

[KenpoDude]

What in the hell is this doing in T&T?
i dunno... you'd think the dumass who started this crap would pay attention.


sorry.
kd

[KenpoDude]

Yes. it is wrong. And if you want to know why you can use the fucking search engine and feel free to look up the other 800 fucking threads about this because I am NOT fucking explaining this to you or anyone else ever again.


what exactly would i type in a search to get these '800 fucking threads'? Got one handy?




And your point. You talk about how some people may train harder than others. What does this have to do, at all, with one style being better than another? I can train for 20 years in Kempo and fight someone who's trained on and off for two months in BJJ and kick his ass*, but all you've tested is training frequency WHICH HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH ANYTHING AT ALL.




It has nothing to do with one style being better than another... that was my point. It's not fair(or smart) to judge the style on the skill of a student.

training frequency has nothing to do with anything? What about commitment? dedication? love of the sport?



I'm not even going to pussyfoot around this. The following arts are better than all others because they teach you to fight: wrestling, boxing, brazilian jiu jitsu, judo, some karate variants, muay thai, and sambo. Pretty much everything else will waste ungodly amounts of time and take infinitely longer to reach the same level of competency. This is a fact.

*no I wouldn't. That's how bad Kempo sucks.

If it's a fact, prove it. Oh, and my style > your style... whatever it is.

kd

[KenpoDude]

addendum:


Theoretical Situation #1:

A student trains wing chun by actively sparring resisting opponents of different styles many times a year.. He typically wins. Does wing chun still suck?

#2:
A student trains in MT by training solo, punching and kicking in air , sometimes. He typically loses sparring sessions because his school doesn't like to. Does MT still rule?


kd

[Aesopian]

If it's a fact, prove it. Oh, and my style > your style... whatever it is.We hold these truths to be self-evident.

[Boyd]

addendum:


Theoretical Situation #1:

A student trains wing chun by actively sparring resisting opponents of different styles many times a year.. He typically wins. Does wing chun still suck?

#2:
A student trains in MT by training solo, punching and kicking in air , sometimes. He typically loses sparring sessions because his school doesn't like to. Does MT still rule?


kd

Are you retarded? Of course training's the most important element. No one's denying that. But if you honestly think if you walk into 100 Muay Thai schools and 99 of them coincidentally train smart and spar hard, and if you walk into 100 WC schools and 99 of them are tracing their lineage out on a sheet of butcher's paper......NO IT HAS TO BE SOME GIGANTIC AND HORRIBLE CONSPIRACY PERPETUATED BY THE JEW MEDIA. OH GOD IT'S LIKE THE LAST EPISODE OF NEWHART ONLY I'M NOT WAKING UP.

[Boyd]

RUSHING HEADLONG INTO A WORLD OF DUTCH TILTS AND WILD JAZZ MUSIC HERE FOLKS

[Aesopian]

INFINITE ROWS OF THAI FIGHTERS PERFORM THE WAI KHRU ENDLESSLY AS WING CHUN IMPALES THEM UPON MATERIALIZED LINEAGES CHARTS.

[Shuma-Gorath]

addendum:


Theoretical Situation #1:

A student trains wing chun by actively sparring resisting opponents of different styles many times a year.. He typically wins. Does wing chun still suck?

#2:
A student trains in MT by training solo, punching and kicking in air , sometimes. He typically loses sparring sessions because his school doesn't like to. Does MT still rule?


kd
You had to construct those hypothetical examples because they never happen in real life. Sorry, but your art sucks.

[Boyd]

OH SNAP IT'S ON NOW

[KenpoDude]

i see. try to challenge the popular point of view and get assaulted by braindead morons.


The only fact as i see it is that training don't make the man, the man makes the training. It's illogical to assume anything is better than anything else based on a few setup competitions and/or drunken street fights, there are too many variables for anything even remotely scientific, objective, or intelligent.

I'm done with this thread now.

kd