Dahn Yoga & Tai Chi Centers

[Zing!]

I never heard chang san feng was ment to be a shaolin expert.

And I've never heard of Chen Wangting.

Oh well.

Consulting google for stories....


It's not that important anyway.

What IS important is that we don't derail this thread. I've seen those Yoga/Tai Chi places all over the place. There's a Dahn place near my apartment. I read one of their flyers in a restaurant and noticed that they refer to Tai Chi as a dance. Needless to say, I stopped reading the flyer. Real Tai Chi=/=Dance

[hythloday]

korean tai chi thats like saying french kung fu

[momo]

Taichi itself was passed from India to China and even they do not claim 5000 year old lineage.
http://eng.dahnworld.com/eng/index.asp

Buddhism was passed from India to China, not TaiChi!! Taichi was from Taoism which is orginated from China!!

[miguksaram]

Buddhism was passed from India to China, not TaiChi!! Taichi was from Taoism which is orginated from China!!

Let me start by saying I am in no way a taichi expert or an authority on its roots. Though, I have studied some Yang Long Style, I can not say I am even close of being intermediate in skill. :) Now with that being said please take what I post with a grain of salt and know that this is mostly oral history that was passed down. Ok...enough blabbing.

It was my understanding that along with the passing of buddhism, Boddhirama saw that his followers were having problems with the exercises that he was teaching. Because of this he developed the 18 Forms of Lo Han. It was through these exercises that Taichi was born. Eventually Taichi found its way into other temples and other systems of Taichi started to spring up. I know this is very generic, but I have never done any extended research on this art as of yet.

What IS important is that we don't derail this thread. I've seen those Yoga/Tai Chi places all over the place. There's a Dahn place near my apartment. I read one of their flyers in a restaurant and noticed that they refer to Tai Chi as a dance. Needless to say, I stopped reading the flyer. Real Tai Chi=/=Dance

This isn't really derailing from the subject so much as it is just proving that this school is either exagerating their history in order to impress Americans or they really don't know what the hell they are talking about.

[Jekyll]

Okay this is what I've found out about the possible founders of tai chi.

Chen Wang Ting;

The idea that Chen Wang Ting was the founder of tai chi, arises from the confusion of Chen Wang-ting of the chen village, who lead a rural militia in suport of the local magistrate (in 1640) and, Chen Wang-ting of from south mancuria who had been an imperial censor and recieved rewards from the emporor before his death in 1630.

Go Liu-Xin the principle exponent of this idea anounced he had got the two confused in 1980, he had been unable to retract his previous statements before the demise of the gang of four.

(My source for this: Complete tai chi by dan docerty)

Chang San Feng was a legandary wandering daoist, the only people to claim he was trained in shaolin kung fu are:
1) Shaolin kung fu practioners
2) some chen stylests (presumably to justify the shaolin influences on their forms)
3) The film twin warriors/Tai chi master

None of them offer any sources for verrification.

It was my understanding that along with the passing of buddhism, Boddhirama saw that his followers were having problems with the exercises that he was teaching. Because of this he developed the 18 Forms of Lo Han. It was through these exercises that Taichi was born. Eventually Taichi found its way into other temples and other systems of Taichi started to spring up. I know this is very generic, but I have never done any extended research on this art as of yet.

See my earlier comment about the attributation of kung fu styles and writen works to legandary figures.

If you do want a scolarly work on the origions of tai chi I strongly recomend complete tai chi by dan docherty, whilest it doesnt draw any conclusions it examins many of the myths in great and sometimes tedious detail. [/nutriding of lineage master]

[serious harm]

One Shaolin/Taijiwuji Zhao Bao tradition I read about say, Damo's major contribution to MAs is the empphasis on qi, intrinsic energy, breath, and mental matery, and his exersices physically inspired the monks to greater spiritual heights. A top student of Damo, Jio Yuan, later left the monastery to seek out Taoist masters in the mountains. He brought back to shaoilin a special way to combine the energies of nature, and to combine the natural fighting abilities of man he already had, with animal fighting techniques

Later in history Zhang San Feng, who was a master herbalist and acupunturist, and Taoist qigong, traveled to shaolin to learn. When he left shaolin, on his enlightenment he witnessed a Snake fight a Crane. He developed the ZhaoBao Taiji qigong system from that inspiration. His major contributions I think were medicine, herbs, and developing a Taiji ball in the lower abdomen for qigong practice.

Of couse, some will point out there is no proof Zhang San Feng has anything to do with what is now Taijiquan. But Chen village is very close to shaolin temple. There is a story about how one of the first Chen's owned a slave named Jiang Fa, who I guess was eventually freed, who was supposedly a Wu Dang practitioner. There is a painting of it. But I don't know for sure if it is true either. The Chens, I think have the oldest intact lineage of Taijiquan.

[serious harm]

Falun gong is an advanced cultivation practice. It's emphasis is on cultivating truth, compassion, and tolerance. IMO I do not think it is at all a sort of "smorgasborg", or little bits and peices of different stuff, cut and pasted together. It was originally known as Falun Dafa, and has now been made public for the current age.

It is totally free. Everything to get started can be got free off the internet. It is not about anything but cultivating to be a better person. It is not a social club, it is not a hobby, etc. It is a serious practice.



http://media1.minghui.org/media/dafa/en_mpg/Instruction_01.ram

http://media1.minghui.org/media/dafa/en_mpg/Instruction_02.ram

http://media1.minghui.org/media/dafa/en_mpg/Instruction_03.ram

http://media1.minghui.org/media/dafa/en_mpg/Instruction_04.ram

http://media1.minghui.org/media/dafa/en_mpg/Instruction_05.ram

http://media1.minghui.org/media/dafa/en_mpg/ExeDemo_07.ram


http://www.falundafa.org/eng/index.htm

http://www.falundafa.org/eng/media.htm

http://www.faluninfo.net/

http://www.clearwisdom.net/

[Thaiboxerken]

Anyplace that pimps out the belief that Chi is real is a place to be avoided.

Falun Dafa isn't free, it costs you your critical thinking skills.

[NextGuard]

Falun gong is an advanced cultivation practice. It's emphasis is on cultivating truth, compassion, and tolerance. IMO I do not think it is at all a sort of "smorgasborg", or little bits and peices of different stuff, cut and pasted together. It was originally known as Falun Dafa, and has now been made public for the current age.

It is totally free. Everything to get started can be got free off the internet. It is not about anything but cultivating to be a better person. It is not a social club, it is not a hobby, etc.





This isn't my field but I know some very serious Chi Gong folks... each time they've come back from China they say it is becoming more and more apparent the the Falun Gong leader, Li Hongzhi is setting himself up as a god and that is undermining whatever good may have come before.

[Jekyll]

I'd like to say that all advanced falun gung practioners should be hung by their thumbs untill they admit they cant fly.

However given that the chinese goverment does still do that sort of thing I proberbly shouldnt.

[Thaiboxerken]

Li Hongzhi does definitely give a deity impression to the followers. He tells people that he can channel chi through himself to people from any distance. Cultivation of "chi" doesn't come from the air anymore, it comes from Li Hongzhi.

Of course, SH will say that it's a lie, even if I post the relevant text from Li Honghzi's book.

[ABTB]

Dahn Hak has been a popular breathing-based form of meditation and exercise in Korea for almost 10 years now. One of their most popular books, translated into several languages, called Brain Breathing, mixes a lot of real and pseudo science into a very 'interesting' basis for their practices. Another readily available book by this prolific group is called Dahn Meditation and it further explains their practices and their organization. Just the list of things that signify enlightenment should set off mental alarm bells - basically as it deals with divesting oneself of worldly wealth; donating said wealth to the Dahn Hak organization being a quick and easy way of doing so. Not only do you get salvation, but you can earn trips to the cool compounds and training facilities that the founders live in...
Competing groups in Korea are Kuk Son Do, and Jeung San Do. Both of these alternate breath-based meditation arts also employ claims that students will progress toward enlightenment, improve health and digestion, cultivate ki, said ki doing things like spontaneously manifesting as inspired martial skills, or healing. Jeung San Do's site even claims it can cure illnesses like diabetes. Some of these places also offer yoga, or yoga-like material, as well as Korean (Yang style) TaiChi Chuan- which is pronounced Taeguk-Kwan here.
Of the three, I got the fewest alarms from Kuk Son Do, but this sort of art isn't for me. All three are very easily used and abused for profit and the spreading of utter BS.

[miguksaram]

Dahn Hak has been a popular breathing-based form of meditation and exercise in Korea for almost 10 years now.

So the 5,000 year old lineage started 10 years ago. :) Nice at least TKD's 2000 year old lineage started 50 years ago. :eusa_liar

One of their most popular books, translated into several languages, called Brain Breathing, mixes a lot of real and pseudo science into a very 'interesting' basis for their practices. Another readily available book by this prolific group is called Dahn Meditation and it further explains their practices and their organization. Just the list of things that signify enlightenment should set off mental alarm bells - basically as it deals with divesting oneself of worldly wealth; donating said wealth to the Dahn Hak organization being a quick and easy way of doing so. Not only do you get salvation, but you can earn trips to the cool compounds and training facilities that the founders live in...

Ahhh yes...for a few thousand dollars you too can live like a peasent in Korea. If their training facilities are based on the country side of Korea you can best bet it will not be an experience you'll soon forget.


Competing groups in Korea are Kuk Son Do, and Jeung San Do.

Is this the same Kuk Son Do, that was based in the temples in Korea?

Thanks for the info on this.

[NextGuard]

Li Hongzhi does definitely give a deity impression to the followers. He tells people that he can channel chi through himself to people from any distance. Cultivation of "chi" doesn't come from the air anymore, it comes from Li Hongzhi.

That matches what my friends have been telling me about him.... One of them knew him long ago and liked him and thought he had a lot to offer. Now they are concerned that his claims to deity status will cause a backlash that will crush all of Chi Gong in China.

[serious harm]

Li Hongzhi is an elnlightened teacher. There have been true teachers whose mission was to teach spiritual teachings, and teach people to cultivate higher throughout history, Jesus, Loa Tzu, many Buddha's, many others, and this millenium is a very important era in history. Falun gong is not religous. No real teacher's teachings were originally religous. But the average person takes the teachings to be religous , misunderstanding them. Religion is what a true spiritual path can be morphrd into, when the teacher is gone and the average people interpet it, with their human minds and human understandings, because they are not yet enlightened so they will still have some misunderstandings, changing the original meaning, with only peices remaining. Falun gong though is spiritual, not religous, maybe when Li Hongzhi is dead, and in 100 years from now perhaps it will be changed by humans, and human mentality.

[Kuroyama]

Im only a year 2 student, so I dont expect to have all my facts correct. BUT, from what I have read and learned so far:

1) nobody knows who REALLY started the FIGHTING SYSTEM known as taijiquan. There are theories about Chen Wanting or Zhangsanfeng. I dont know that anyone really knows. Those two names are promoted based on their fame and political ties of the time. For all we know taijiquan was actually created by some farmer with no famous name or proud accolades, and so history has given the credit to someone else. If you read enough on this youll find theories that go either way.

2) "taiji" itself is what is born from wuji (nothingness) taiji is an expression of yin/yang (positive/negative) or another way of expessing a balanced state that is in motion. The idea of taijiquan as I understand it is that you remain balanced during fighting. Many moves involve coming to understand the opponents balance and disrupting it thus gaining advantage. (note: balance doesnt always equal the vertical plane) It is said that taiji theory goes beyond just the fighting systems.

Dinnerbell just got sounded and I was ready to eat the desk anyway. I'll be back.