Dahn Yoga & Tai Chi Centers

[penelope]

Wow Penelope, yet another good catch... I feel like a total slacker now :5bomb:

In Lee's book, Dahn Ki Gong (I believe, will have to look it up to be sure) Lee tried to claim that all Qi Gong originated in Korea. Something similar was written on one of his site's blogs.

I always find it interesting how some people try to re-write obvious points in history and pass it off as fact. There will always be someone to eat it up.



Actually, it would be nice if they ran the world's McDonalds' (plural) :)

It's not easy to figure it out. You get credit for bringing up the questions. Now if only Dahn members would ask before they start bowing to Dangun and Ilchi Lee.

I think now they say (maybe in the "Dahnhak Kigong" book) that the Chinese originated one kind of Tao and the Koreans another - but of course the Korean one is better.

Dahn capitalizes on Korean mythology and the Korean nationalist movement to feel wholly (or should I say holy) Korean again since the Japanese invasion, a movement that is enjoying a resurgence in popularity since the 60's. Facts seem to take a back seat to this.

[Sri Hanuman]

I don't have a gripe with the Korean nationalist movement... they are entitled to think what they think. I'm more disappointed by the general lack of education in the U.S. People just don't believe in checking up on information they are given. They don't know how to cross reference.

As someone coming from a country that was at one point Communist, and as such, from a mindset of "believe what we say or else," I am utterly shocked at the lack of people willing to test what they are given as "fact" when it would cost them nothing, save a wee bit of effort to do so.

There are so many wonderful history books, and historical facts out there, and they are all available to anyone who is willing to look (such as yourself for example :)

I am more concerned about the people who are too dumb to look this info up for themselves, and see exactly what kind of bs they are getting, instead of believing anything their magical leader feeds em.

Sorry for the rant, but at times I get carried away.

/rant

[penelope]

Understandably. Me too!

[Shiningwolf]

Ok. I went to a Dahn center today and asked those questions you gave me Humanzee. This is a simplified version. (an R stands for a reply/interruption)

Q: What is the history of Dahn
A: At first he stuttered, was surprised, looked around, asked why i was asking then answered,
"When we are children, we are stress free and limber, as we grow older we grow stiff and build up stress. Stress affects the body (which is true), but even as stress leaves our minds, our body retains some of it (wtf) The founder Ilchi Lee was stressful, gained enlightenment and invented exercises and a form of holistic healing used to release stress and balance the body. He taught in parks, then opened up a center, then opened up branches." He also said Dahn means energy.

Q: History and Lineage of their Taiji
A: It is not Taiji, it is qigong
R: But your sign says Tai Chi
A: "in the West Tai chi is a name for energy martial arts (later on he mentioned martial applications during his Dahn Mu Do speech)". Then he started dancing around the bush so i decided to bring up Dahn Mu Do.

Q: What is Dahn Mu Do, its history and lineage.
A: It is a martial art meant for self-healing and balancing the body. Dahn means energy, Mu means limitlessness or emptiness, Do means way.
R: Martial Arts are meant for harming people and self-defense because they were developed to do so.
A: In physical martial arts, you build up stress and are tired and build up muscles. Energy martial arts like Dahn Mu Do, you don't build up stress and build up your energy and have a clearer mind. We do not spar like other martial arts. Brazilian Jiujitsu for example is a rough style that you have to "fit into", Dahn Mu Do is a style that both an 8 year old and 80 year old can learn.
R: Then what are the "practical applications of it"
A: Its for self-healing and creating balance, see some of the basic stances in martial arts show balance (he then did a bad horse stance with his feet turned outward, and a in-line front stance). See, if a martial art does not have balance, it will not last long.

After that i decided to give-up rather than correct him and leave.

Note: When i first came in to ask questions he was caught off guard, and took awhile to think of answers, kept repeating himself, looking around, et cetera.

I'm going to go back in a day or two (i was pretending i was interested in classes) and ask for a demonstration of this energy and some other things.

[penelope]

Thanks, shiningwolf. What he didn't say was interesting too: He didn't mention Ilchi Lee.

[penelope]

Thanks, shiningwolf. What he didn't say was interesting too: He didn't mention Ilchi Lee.

Sorry, now I see that he did mention Ilchi Lee.

[Shiningwolf]

Also, i forgot to add, when i asked about the origins and history and lineage of Dahn Mu Do, he gave no specific answer and kept saying different masters who also studied martial arts added to Dahn Mu Do.

Later today (or if i can't later this week) i'm might to go back and ask the same questions if its a different person (to see if the answers change) and if its the same person just to see a demo of what there exercises are...

[Sri Hanuman]

Here is some further info regarding the lawsuit.
Exherpts from CBS2 Chicago:
http://cbs2chicago.com/investigations/dahn.yoga.cult.2.1049155.html


"I think that Dahn Yoga is an extremely deceptive and very dangerous cult," said former Dahn Yoga member Amy Shipley.
...
But in a lawsuit, Shipley and 23 other former members charge they were victims of "psychological manipulation" and "thought reform techniques" that included sleep deprivation and excessive exercise.
...
"Everyone around me was screaming really loudly, people were slamming the floor with their fists, people were bawling, someone that I know even collapsed," Shipley said.
...
And it all required "money training" which meant giving the group money.
...
"I took out student loans, I used all of the money I had in the bank, I took out three credit cards," Shipley said. "I spent over $47,000."
...
In reality, the suit charges that money collected from students at Dahn centers supports Lee's extravagant lifestyle.

"He's making $1 million net a month from his U.S. operations," Kent said.

Ex-members say they were pressured to sign up new members and open new centers to help Lee achieve his goal of recruiting 100 million followers.
...
"I was expected to recruit 20 people every month and make the organization about $20,000 to $30,000 every month," Shipley said.


Be sure to watch the video as well.

[Samuel Browning]

Does anyone know if this was a state or federal lawsuit and if so where it was filed.

[Sri Hanuman]

Does anyone know if this was a state or federal lawsuit and if so where it was filed.

No idea on that count, but I'll see if I can figure it out. Whom would I normally contact to find that info? Sadly my lawyer-fu is non-existant... :5bullwhip

[Samuel Browning]

I thought one of the former members might indicate that here.

[Sri Hanuman]

Here is what I dug up.

This lawsuit filed in May:
http://www.abc15.com/media/news/3/6/5/36599b81-d3fc-4c54-9928-6aebc56b2f27/DAHN_YOGA_LAWSUIT.pdf

According to this:
http://www.sfreporter.com/stories/briefs_june_10/4710/?page=1
the case was filed in federal court in AZ.

***EDITED
included in that lawsuit pdf, is a short list of organizations Lee owns, in case any Dahn members doubt the guy is filthy rich. Just felt like throwing it out there.

[Sri Hanuman]

Another interview revolving around the recent lawsuit.
This time at CBS 5.

http://cbs5.com/local/dahn.yoga.lawsuit.2.1055325.html


Go to a class and you'll do chest-tapping, stretching and something called "Brain Wave Vibration" where participants are instructed to make small movements with their heads, while listening to a recorded message.
...
my body," she said. Potter signed up for $1,100 worth of classes to start. She soon enrolled in more demanding programs that she says consumed all of her time, energy and money.
...
Potter said as part of her training she was instructed to hold poses for 90 minutes at a time, and perform hundreds of bows. "Your arms start to shake you legs start to shake, you feel like you are going to die," she recalled.
...
"I started working 100 plus hours a week. I was sleeping five or six hours a night," she said. Potter said her job was to enroll new members in expensive programs. She said the goal for most yoga centers was to take in about $25,000 a month.
...
There was a lot of pressure to make that money, no matter what. I found myself just thinking about money, just trying to make money. I didn't care how," Potter said.
...
Former Dahn member Jade Harrelson, who bears a striking resemblance to Potter, has a different story. She said the group's founder, Ilchi Lee, sexually assaulted her back in 2006, after summoning her to South Korea to work alongside him.

"People were trying to tell me 'He is so enlightened,' and then it turned into 'Well, this is an honor.' It was so difficult to get across this was a reprehensible act," Harrelson said
...
They max out their credit card debt and they max out their student loans at around $30,000 to $50,000. That's the general rule for these kids that otherwise have no assets," Kent said.

[Shiningwolf]

Another interview revolving around the recent lawsuit.
This time at CBS 5.

http://cbs5.com/local/dahn.yoga.lawsuit.2.1055325.html

I wonder what would happen if you brought this whole lawsuit business to the attention of a person working at a Dahn center...

[Sri Hanuman]

I wonder what would happen if you brought this whole lawsuit business to the attention of a person working at a Dahn center...

Way ahead of you on that one.
1. Denial
2. Denial
3. Denial

Better question is, can we get one on this thread?

[Samuel Browning]

I got a copy of the complaint. Humanzee, if I got it to you do you have the ability to scan it and post it here?