Inspired by the "MA Careers" thread...

[Boogyman]

The more I thought about my response to the "MA Careers thread" I started to ponder what exactly, or how exactly can a person doing "real" MA (I know it's subjective, but bear with me) go about marketing their business/school without crossing the Bullshido line?
As well as how does one go about making money off of those people who don't want to train seriously and who don't want to compete without crossing said line (I know I know there are really people that are like this, but again bear with me)?

How about listing a series of things that you would do to accomplish these goals, and following with an explanation of how and why (you think) they would work.

Discuss...

[Thaiboxerken]

Really, one needs to have a school that can attract both the serious martial artist/ fighter and the average citizen and kids. This would mean that the place would have to be partly a mcdojo with a different program for fighters. The fighter program wouldn't necessarily be for just those that wanted to fight, but for those that want to be more hardcore.

[Boogyman]

Ok, so how would you, go about marketing something like that without crossing the line and telling everyone that your style is (insert an "I am better than you" comment here)?
Also being that you need to get little johnnies parents to pay for it, how would you go about making that reality happen? Again without crossing that line.

Marketing to fighters/competitors is easy just be successfull in competition, and "...they will come." BTW I think you have a decent approach, I am just curious to see different perspectives on applying it.

[Thaiboxerken]

Well, you can simply market what you teach by just naming the systems you train and why you feel they are effective.

And, you can add "TKD Sucks" at the end.

[Boogyman]

Well, you can simply market what you teach by just naming the systems you train and why you feel they are effective.

And, you can add "TKD Sucks" at the end.

LMAO, ok point taken.

Let me clarify; I mean what is the difference between doing that as a fighter/instructor/all around badass and what every other school in the country does?

example; "Hi I am Bad Ass Bob, and I am T3H D34D1Y!!! Why, you may ask, because I have a peice of paper that says so. Aaaand I have over 10,000 streetfights!!! My Ass Bob Do(tm) system works great in every instance, and you can be proficient in a day!!! What, do I have any documented proof of it working? Of course, my students can attest to it's effectiveness. We have fought fat guys/girls kids and the homeless on many occasions."

Really how does that seperate you from the herd?

[Feryk]

Actually, that would make you part of the herd. That's what normally gets printed.

I remember the first day of class as a white belt, our instructor came out and said, "This is Karate, we don't fly up to the treetops like in Crouching Tiger, Hidden Dragon. We sweat. There are no secrets here, just hard work. If you want to be able to shoot energy beams from your fingers, or jump up to the roof of the gym, go somewhere else."

I thought it was great, but there were a couple of younger students who actually looked disappointed. They left after they realized we would be doing more than 100 pushups that class. Hell, I almost left when I realized it, myself (I was fat and out of shape-it scared the hell out of me).

Unfortunately, working your ass off isn't a popular sales technique.

[Boogyman]

"Unfortunately, working your ass off isn't a popular sales technique."--Feryk

True, so true. So any suggestions?

What about the resident bullshido people, do you folks have any input on this subject? C'mon put your money where your mouth is. I read people writing this is bullshido and that is bullshido, well how does one go about not being bullshido and still being successfull? (Providing that there are reasonable skillsets involved, and also providing for the fact that not everyone wants to train for combat, and most of these people make up for a large percentage of our country)

I am all for being the change that needs to happen, I just want to fully explore what exactly that change is, and possibly bring some viable suggestions to light. Maybe an idea that has not been explored yet will surface, and that someone browsing/lurking will see this and make it happen. It could even be one of us...

[bodar]

Unfortunately, working your ass off isn't a popular sales technique.

I don't know, Feryk. Look at Tiger Schulmann's Karate (yes, I used the Search, so I know the general concensus about them around here). They've proven that you can have a McDojo where students learn to fight well, and are expected to work hard, even the kids. They are a McDojo because they cater to the general public, break wood (at least they used to), have large classes, use long contracts, and try to make learning fun, etc. They don't just give away belts, they constantly push students to train hard, and they don't fuck around when it comes to effective, high % techniques, however. They aren't Bullshido.

I trained there for 5 years, starting in 1992 (I was 13) and it was my first martial arts school. I had a great time training AND I worked my ass off. I even had fun when my scrawny ass would get handed to me by amateur kickboxers twice my size. I'd be there now if I hadn't gone to Maryland for college and developed health problems which limit my ability to train. Schulmann has like 40 schools in the Northeast, yet his schools produce great fighters, mostly because of how carefully he picks instructors. If you balance the equation properly, you can have it both ways: integrity and success... a McDojo where warriors train.

http://www.tsk.com

[Feryk]

I would suggest that you consider carefully the kind of instruction you are trying to give, and who you want as students. Most of these schools don't give a shit about who shows up--as long as they bring cash. That's one of the biggest problems with McDojoism.

Focus your message on who you want to attract. If it's kids, then market towards their parents. We talk about respect, discipline, and self confidence in the fliers we send out for the kids programs, as well as self defense. A lot of parents out there are looking for something that will help them build those qualities in their children (and a lot of organized 'sports' don't do as good a job as they used to).

It's not perfect, but it stays away from 'I'm a bad ass, and you can be too!' marketing. We don't make claims about 'Streetproofing your kids' or any other unrealistic platitudes that are out there.

Our method of marketing involves a hell of a lot of legwork, and nothing fancy. We (the students of the club) deliver 30,000 fliers personally, door to door once a year. We do this to support the club, but it isn't required. Another 15,000 are distributed in elementary schools in the area, twice a year.

It takes a while, but eventually it builds a regular stream of new students. We also tell students that they should not show off their Karate to their friends. If their friends want to see it, they can come to a class and check it out (free, of course). A surprising number who watch end up joining.

If you're looking to attract semi pro and pro MAists, then I would suggest a different approach, but I am unqualified to help you there.

Is this the kind of information you are looking for?

EDIT - Bodar, I have never had any experience with TSK, but I was under the impression that people here generally respected the level of Karate taught there, they just didn't like the marketing that TSK does. I can't comment either way on that.

[justA black guy]

Really, one needs to have a school that can attract both the serious martial artist/ fighter and the average citizen and kids. This would mean that the place would have to be partly a mcdojo with a different program for fighters. The fighter program wouldn't necessarily be for just those that wanted to fight, but for those that want to be more hardcore.

shidokan attracts kids but most parents don't like the low kicks and high thai kicks we practice.

So maybe if you have trick them, like shidokan does than maybe you will be able to attract everybody.

[bodar]

EDIT - Bodar, I have never had any experience with TSK, but I was under the impression that people here generally respected the level of Karate taught there, they just didn't like the marketing that TSK does. I can't comment either way on that.

I agree. That what I meant by the "concensus" part. I was merely informing those who didn't read past threads. I was trying to prove my point. Not every kid and soccer mom in TSK fights like a barracuda on steroids. TSK appeals to a wide range of people and tailors to their needs. Wanna not be fat, TSK will help. Wanna learn to fight effectively, got that covered too. I'm trying to say that people are always gonna get out what they put in, but as long as you hold everyone to fair yet strict standards, you can have a successful school that teaches good martial arts.

Thaiboxerken is on the money. Prospective instructors shouldn't be so caught up in, "Does this make my school a McDojo?" that they become afraid to succeed.

[Boogyman]

Great input Feryk, that's a start.
Flyers, custom advertising (for or to the intended market), being sure not to tip the BS meter (too badly?). Great, what else? C'mon people this is a chance to put in writing exactly what would be considered not being Bullshido.

"I am all for being the change that needs to happen, I just want to fully explore what exactly that change is, and possibly bring some viable suggestions to light. Maybe an idea that has not been explored yet will surface, and that someone browsing/lurking will see this and make it happen. It could even be one of us..."--Boogyman

Therefore any and all info would be appreciated. I have a meeting to go to, so I'll check back in the morning. Later.

[Boogyman]

okaaaay...apparently nobody else has any ideas or Feryk, Thaiboxerken, bodar, & JustA black guy have come up with all the answers. (BTW good job guys)
Aright, I'll take a stab at it myself and tell me what you think;

For EXAMPLE:

1) Open a gym (some sort of MA...other?)
2) Provide an atmosphere that is conducive to growing in an applicable art. (whatever that may be) Replete with hard contact sparring.
3) Provide Mats, bags, gloves, protection gear, weights, (maybe) cardio equipment, and enough room to maneuver around comfortably in.
a) A cage, ring, dummies, and other equip. as needed.
4) Allow people of other arts to train there as well (providing an atmosphere of openness, and all inclusive training). Possibly even have specialists from other arts come in for seminars and the like.
5) Make the gym accessible for all of your pro competitors.
a) Possibly configure classes that differ in intensity from the pro time. possibly not.
6) Provide some type of cardio class.
7) Advertise specifically for the different groups/demographics you want.

... there has to be more, I just can't think of anymore right now. If there is any more that people are willing to list to help in clarifying this, it would be appreciated.

[Feryk]

Number 1 is waaayyyy more complex than you might think. Not to mention expensive as hell. Perhaps it would make sense to find a gym like you have in mind, and work there for a while. You'll get a better idea of how to run one.

NOTE- many gyms fail in the first year or two. Look for one that is, and try to find out what went wrong. Then, try to buy their space/equipment from the receiver. No point in paying full price when there is a deal to be had.

g/luck

[Boogyman]

Oh, I totally agree, I do not plan on openning a school myself (don't really have the need/time, being a pro takes up a considerable amount of my time), I just want to put what NON-BULLSHIDO means into an actual plan of sorts. For information purposes to the general (interested) masses. It's just something I got to thinking of while responding to the MA Careers thread, well that and trying to think of other money making ideas for the school I am currently at (definitly not a mcdojo). Utilizing other money making ideas without tarnishing the rep of a school is a daunting, and difficult process. Like I wrote I am just trying to put ideas to paper/internet/whatever.

[Feryk]

Boog,

Do you own a piece of the action at your current gym? Being a pro, you have the ability to attract people to train with you. Especially if you start getting PPV coverage of your fights. Something to consider.