Savate, JKD, Muay Thai

[Sei I]

"What system of JKD are you learning from????"

Shouldnt that be an oxymoron? Lol. JKD has crazy politics. Someone just needs to admit that they had no idea what bruce was talking about.

Osiris- The slick martial arts pimp.


It's everywhere, not only in JKD. But you are right. Dammed right, Osiris. Better you wouldn't... :)

[Sei I]

The lineage I'm in is three people removed from Bruce: My instructor learned from Paul Vunak who learned from Dan Inosanto who was Bruce's partner in developing the art.

"I'm not tense; just terribly, terribly alert."


To JKDChick:

Here we are! ;) Vunak is teaching muay-thai kicking, not Korean type as it was with Bruce. That’s why you cannot see what I pointed out about technique.

“Developing art” – sounds like “let’s adapt Bruce’s ideas to our point of view”…

By the way, what Vunak presents as his main invention, I am talking about fighting distances and appropriate techniques to these distances, was already “invented” before him. See in Nil Oznobyshin’s book about self-defense printed in 1936 or 1937 in Soviet Russia. Of course, you won’t find this book in closest bookshop or library in States (as I won’t do this in Lithuania as well, need to go to Russia perhaps) but it is still worth to check out as it is beginning of sambo system (hey BJJs, you like it on you? ;) …) Though it looks funny to me when others are looking for some ancient manuscripts or makimono in China, Japan or Korea, would be very similar… Nevermind. Just a note.

Anyway, you are a fifth generation of JKD then! Congratulations!... That would make Bruce laugh too... :)

[JKDChick]

Oh, I wouldn't argue that we don't do a lot of Muay Thai -- my instructor trained in Thailand for his kick boxing. But tonnes of our kicks are Savate based -- he trained with Dan Dubay, the Savate master, as well (through Paul, by the way). I've learned a lot of savate from him. I can tell the difference fairly easily.

"I'm not tense; just terribly, terribly alert."

[Sei I]

Oh, I wouldn't argue that we don't do a lot of Muay Thai -- my instructor trained in Thailand for his kick boxing. But tonnes of our kicks are Savate based -- he trained with Dan Dubay, the Savate master, as well (through Paul, by the way). I've learned a lot of savate from him. I can tell the difference fairly easily.

"I'm not tense; just terribly, terribly alert."


Well, JKDChick, you agree with me more or less and thanks to you for that. As I said, and you have agreed, you use Muay-thai instead of Tang Soo Do that Bruce Lee had to use (had no other option at that moment). So here we agree both, I guess.

What to Savate, I had previously stated that its origin is former Muay-thai. But some techniques have changed slightly since 18th or 19th century when they have been brought from Siam (Thailand) to France. Or maybe they looked such way at that time, who knows? Anyway, during such time techniques were in development phase (as they still are) independently in France and in Thailand so they split a little bit and now you may notice the differences. Major impact on these changes was caused by the purpose/goal of technique use and then national habits and traditions and climate (wearing boots and narrow pants vs. hot and wet climate and appropriate to it dress – probably you would kick differently too wearing pants or skirt, wouldn’t you?).

But while we are talking about “style” or “lineage of masters” it makes JKD already traditional martial art as any other. With all its positive and negative sides. Bruce Lee, as far as I am convinced, was always against such things. So, in one hand, it made me laugh, in the other – it is sad about current JKD.

To JKDChick: @->

[Sei I]

Trust me F=MA

Osiris- The slick martial arts pimp.


Actually, F=M*A*A... Check 2nd Newton's law if so...

[JKDChick]

Bruce was a mutant. I'm not fast enough to kick like him. Gotta go to Muay Thai for my kicks.

Thanks for the flower. <img src=icon_smile_wink.gif border=0 align=middle>

"I'm not tense; just terribly, terribly alert."

[jeff_lindqvist]

Here we are! ;) Vunak is teaching muay-thai kicking, not Korean type as it was with Bruce. That’s why you cannot see what I pointed out about technique.

I wonder what elements Brue Lee took from MT, if not kicks. According to literature, and the following site, he based JKD loosely on 26 systems/styles (this might or might not be true):

http://fighting.org/jkd1.htm#JUN%20FAN%20ELEMENTS

“Developing art” – sounds like “let’s adapt Bruce’s ideas to our point of view”

Not at all. Let me quote JKDChick:

[...]Dan Inosanto who was Bruce's partner in developing the art.

This doesn't at all sound like what you said, unless you don't agree that Dan Inosanto was a friend of Bruce's and that he contributed to JKD.

Peace.



Edited by - jeff_lindqvist on December 11 2002 18:56:59

[Freddy]

Sei I- To name one possible person that Bruce Lee had good relationships that could and likely have tought him high kicks is Shek Kim. Shek Kim learn Northern Shaolin from Master Chiu Lin-Sing,learn Northern Eagle Claw, learn Northern Praying Mantis from Master Chiu Lum and a few other systems.
You are right that JKD isnt a style thatbis the core of JKD theorem. I sometimes say style (lack of a better word perhaps) becouse certain JKD teachers have their own method of JKD and I gues you could say its THEIR STYLE. Just like Bruce had his own style of JKD vs Dan Inosantos's etc.

PEACE!

[Gezere]

>What to Savate, I had previously stated that its origin is former Muay-thai. But some techniques have changed slightly since 18th or 19th century when they have been brought from Siam (Thailand) to France

No, Sei I you are inccorrect. The french were footfight BEFORE they took to the waters. MT probably had very LITTLE influence on Savate.

Your idea that Savate developed from MT is very wrong.


Xiao Ao Jiang Hu Zhi Dong Fang Bu Bai (Laughing Proud Warrior Invinsible Asia) Emporer of Baji!!! THE FIRST LINE OF DEFENSE AGAINST THE UNITED AUSSIE FRONT!!

[Toby Christensen]

Speaking of JKD, has anyone here ever been to a Dan Inosanto Seminar? He is giving one here in two weeks and was thinking of going.



"Gentlemen! No fighting in here! This is the War Room."



I know a friend of Inosanto's and from what he's said, yes you should.

"YOU are the most militant disabled person I know!" - Psychiatrist

"You say the nicest things" - me