9/12/2010 6:50pm, #21
9/12/2010 7:14pm, #22
All sports try to tailor they're rules to avocate a certain style. As a result there are usually some negative side effects of the rulsets.
The negative side effects for Judo have been a castration of newaza, dilution of the ippon criteria and negative grip fighting.
BJJ has encountered similar negative side effects, although I don't know a lot about BJJ, the type of butt scooting demonstrated in this video is as frustrating and negative as anything you'll seen in IJF rules Judo.
9/12/2010 7:50pm, #23
9/13/2010 4:30am, #24
BJJ implemented all these fucked up rules to make sure they stay dominant. Sorry that's bullshit.
1. You can't do leg locks because people were getting hurt.
-trying teaching everybody when to tap.
2. Outlawed bicep slicer because hyperextended and broken arms
-Try educating everybody.
3. BJJ guys were being beaten because wrestlers, sambo players, and judoka were throwing and disengaging.
-learn that aspect of the game and end the controversy.
In my opinion the aim of events like this is to see who's better on the ground that's why you get 2 points for a takedown, but 3 for passing guard, 4 for mount, etc. As judoka_uk said the rules encourage a certain type of style - in this case groundwork.
Fair enough if you don't care for it and don't believe it's the best grappling style - I actually agree with you there - but I just think all the "this is an embarassment, it's ridiculous, disgraceful" stuff is a little over the top.
9/13/2010 9:52am, #25
The main part I think is bullshit is the forced engagement. Bring me down there and we'll talk. If you attack me from a ground position and I scramble to disengage then come talk to me. Sitting on the ground and being forced to walk into somebody's guard is bullshit.
9/13/2010 10:30am, #26
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- Judo & BJJ
9/20/2010 1:06pm, #27
- Join Date
- Apr 2010
- muay thai, BJJ
In my eyes it destroys the true competition of submission grappling when you force a wrestler to engage a butt flopper. Grappling competitions should be about who is best at combining standing grappling and ground grappling. Would your feelings be the same if the butt flopper were forced to engage a wrestler who wants to work from the clinch or shoot?
Futhermore, the point structure for passing guard, mount, etc can be construed to be just as helpful to a strong clinch/shot grappler. As stated before a good wrestler (or judoka) will begin groundwork from side control. From there the rules benefit them just as much for taking mount/back.
9/20/2010 2:39pm, #28
- Join Date
- Apr 2005
- Seattle (Ballard), WA
- FMA, Jujutsu/Judo/SAMBO
Yes, I understand that sport grappling is it's own thing. But grappling is a combative sport. I just wished they'd penalize any fucked up combative position. Buttflopping would be penalized. Judo turtlers would be penalized.
It astounds me that wrestlers and judoka would get penalized for tossing someone and then standing back up (refusing to go to groundwork -as there is a certain combative logic to it) while buttscooting is perfectly acceptable. I mean, which makes more sense combatively? I mean, is buttscooting an effective tactic in any scenerio in the world outside of sport bjj?
There should be some kind of balance in the ruleset. A throw going to positional dominance should score well, and encourage people to actually work their standup games. Good groundwork should score well. Hey, wait, this sounds like freestyle SAMBO!
I think I'm just going to enter a BJJ tournament and stand on my head. What the **** are you going to do? Tip me over and get penalized for slamming me? Pick me up and get penalized for spiking me on my head?
Hall is very good at his game. But it's a niche game that would be relegated to a very small and specific grappling scenerio if the rules were tweaked to avoid buttscooting.
9/20/2010 10:56pm, #29
- Join Date
- Aug 2007
- Biloxi, MS
- Mixed Martial Arts
Ryan Hall has sick jiu-jitsu.
with that said I'm not joining the argument about butt-flopping. if it makes you angry then get them back by smashing their guard. if you can't then you probably don't deserve to win anyway.
Last edited by M-Tri; 9/20/2010 11:03pm at .FACT- Eddie Bravo invented the triangle choke when he used it to tap out helio gracie at an ac/dc concert.
9/21/2010 10:12am, #30
If those are the rules you like then invent a tournament with no throws or no points given to throws. 'nuf said.