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  1. #11

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    Quote Originally Posted by JudOWNED View Post
    Wow. Buttscooting is an embarasment. And I can't believe the ref just made Hermes step right into his guard like that. If that's how it's gonna be, why not just start from the knees?
    Exactly my thoughts.

  2. #12
    Ungjaevel's Avatar
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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    I'm not sure about the injury bit preventing Hall from working for a takedown. I monitor the Grapplers Quest youtube page for Hall's matches and he rarely if ever exhibits any desire to grapple on his feet beyond getting the grips he needs to flop. Same thing at the 2010 Mundials.

    E.g. watch the first 20 seconds of this video:

    YouTube - Ryan Hall vs. Tommy Malmberg

    I admire Hall for his technical ability, but as people have already said in this thread, it's kind of lame that someone can so easily dodge the neutral position in BJJ competition.

  3. #13
    Das Moose's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JudOWNED View Post
    Wow. Buttscooting is an embarasment. And I can't believe the ref just made Hermes step right into his guard like that. If that's how it's gonna be, why not just start from the knees?
    Are we really back to this yet again? It's a grappling tournament. People are going to pull guard. Why does it matter if Hall buttscoots? He has no interest in fighting MMA. This is his sport, he's going to play tactically to get to the position he wants. He knows Hermes is a better wrestler so why would he give him the opportunity to take him down?

  4. #14
    JudOWNED's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Das Moose View Post
    Are we really back to this yet again? It's a grappling tournament. People are going to pull guard. Why does it matter if Hall buttscoots? He has no interest in fighting MMA. This is his sport, he's going to play tactically to get to the position he wants. He knows Hermes is a better wrestler so why would he give him the opportunity to take him down?
    Bringing up MMA is a red herring. Also, pulling guard =/= butt scooting. And it matters because butt scooting is shitty grappling.

  5. #15
    Das Moose's Avatar
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    Is it? Looked to me like he won the match.

  6. #16

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    Quote Originally Posted by JudOWNED View Post
    Wow. Buttscooting is an embarasment. And I can't believe the ref just made Hermes step right into his guard like that. If that's how it's gonna be, why not just start from the knees?
    I'm with you there. It's ridiculous. I've heard that the rules requiring the top guy to engage the guy on the bottom were implemented to keep wrestlers and Judo players from repeatedly taking the guy down and then standing up. This is just the inverse.

    They really should take points from guard pullers/buttfloppers (although there has to be some kind of allowance for failing a sacrifice throw).

    Inverted guard makes me want to just punch the bottom guy in the 'nads.

    I'm really starting to see the wisdom of the old, Kano-era Judo rules (not the IJF!)

    I don't care who you are: if you can't grapple standing, you're not a good grappler -- you've crippled yourself.

  7. #17
    Zapruder's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Res Judicata View Post
    I don't care who you are: if you can't grapple standing, you're not a good grappler -- you've crippled yourself.
    As long as the inverse is true I am down for this line of thinking. The inverse is the same reason I get bored watching judo.
    Quote Originally Posted by OnceLost View Post
    Actually, I don't do it because I don't want people to be scammed - I do it because I enjoy kicking down the doors of Lies and Deceit and then forcibly fucking Fraud with the dildo of Truth.
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    I don't care if they gave it to him because, he tickles butterfly butt-holes while wearing a pink frock.

  8. #18

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    Quote Originally Posted by Zapruder View Post
    As long as the inverse is true I am down for this line of thinking. The inverse is the same reason I get bored watching judo.
    Oh, I agree totally. There's a reason I split my time between Judo and BJJ. Judo would be awesome if it weren't for the IJF and the refs. Watching guys play pattycake for 5 minutes is as dull for me as watching guys mess around in guard for that long.

    Unfortunately, the learning curve for standing techniques is just a lot steeper than for groundwork. You can get decent in groundwork much faster than standing. And when guys are allowed to pull guard and takedowns are only 2 points. Well, you see the incentives it creates for training.

  9. #19
    JudOWNED's Avatar
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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    I will say I don't really have a problem with pulling guard like in the second vid. If you can drag someone into your guard without being thrown or letting them jump past it to a pin, more power to ya. But that's totally different than literally sitting on your ass waiting for the other guy to step into your guard (or have the ref force them there). That's freakin' ridiculous.

  10. #20

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    Quote Originally Posted by Das Moose View Post
    Is it? Looked to me like he won the match.
    Missing the point. I shouldn't have to engage unless I'm dragged down there. BJJ implemented all these fucked up rules to make sure they stay dominant. Sorry that's bullshit.
    1. You can't do leg locks because people were getting hurt.
    -trying teaching everybody when to tap.
    2. Outlawed bicep slicer because hyperextended and broken arms
    -Try educating everybody.
    3. BJJ guys were being beaten because wrestlers, sambo players, and judoka were throwing and disengaging.
    -learn that aspect of the game and end the controversy.

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