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  1. BackFistMonkey is offline
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    Posted On:
    9/08/2010 12:03pm

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     Style: Recovery-Fu

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Evolution of thought and science brought about by increasing literacy and an ever growing foundation of collected data ?

    HORSE ****!
    Quote Originally Posted by Bodhi108 View Post
    Nuke a unborn gay whale for Christ.
    “I don't mean to sound bitter, cold, or cruel, but I am, so that's how it comes out.”
    BILL HICKS,
    1961-1994
  2. DdlR is offline
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    Posted On:
    9/08/2010 12:24pm

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     Style: Bartitsu

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Chimaira View Post

    The panel was held by John Clements, director of ARMA, and as seen on his page http://thearma.org/Director.htm, owner of some incredible pants. His thesis was that pretty much anything amazing that Eastern Martial Arts attribute to chi/ki can be accomplished through principles found in Renaissance martial arts such as leverage, sensitivity, and attitude. He did some demonstrations showing his ease in controlling an opponent's blade, resistance to force applied by an opponent in locked blades, etc., and then went into the physics of how it all worked. He went pretty in depth into the different concepts of Renaissance martial arts and how they were all based around science, a western invention, where as the Asian arts developed around metaphysical or religious ideas. Overall, a very cool presentation.
    Back in 1898, Bartitsu founder E.W. Barton-Wright produced an article called "How to Pose as a Strongman" which exposed the tricks of leverage and psychology used by entertainers to create the illusion of superhuman strength. It's a bit ironic that these tricks were revealed back in the 19th century but are still being displayed as demonstrations of internal power.

  3. DdlR is offline
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    Posted On:
    9/08/2010 12:36pm

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    Quote Originally Posted by JKDChick View Post
    Yeah, me too. I realllly don't like the claims he makes on his web page.
    Clements' efforts to counter the "OMG Asia is all mystical and stuff!!!!" BS go way too far in the "West is best" direction.
  4. Chimaira is offline

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    Posted On:
    9/08/2010 12:38pm


     Style: BJJ

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by DdlR View Post
    Clements' efforts to counter the "OMG Asia is all mystical and stuff!!!!" BS go way too far in the "West is best" direction.
    He actually addressed this. His reasoning was that because the pendulum has swung so far in favor of the Asian arts he knowingly is overzealous in an attempt to balance it out.
  5. WhiteShark is offline
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    1% Shark is better than you.

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    Posted On:
    9/08/2010 12:39pm

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     Style: BJJ/Shidokan

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by DdlR View Post
    Back in 1898, Bartitsu founder E.W. Barton-Wright produced an article called "How to Pose as a Strongman" which exposed the tricks of leverage and psychology used by entertainers to create the illusion of superhuman strength. It's a bit ironic that these tricks were revealed back in the 19th century but are still being displayed as demonstrations of internal power.

    AWESOME I found the article: http://babel.hathitrust.org/cgi/pt?s...19&u=1&num=59#

    I hope that link lasts.
  6. Dak is offline

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    Posted On:
    9/08/2010 12:39pm


     Style: Boxing

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    Quote Originally Posted by DdlR View Post
    "West is best" direction.

    HAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHHA. delightful!
  7. keyoz is offline

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    Posted On:
    9/08/2010 12:53pm


     Style: No-Gi BJJ/MMA/MT noob

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Oh ok lets not stop there than- is obvious that the old Islamic belief that the djinn (invincible evil spirits) cause diseases was actually the Muslim microbiology “of the day”.

    Alchemy did besides metaphysical and philosophical elements contain some concepts of basic chemistry but so does cooking and it doesn’t make it science. If you would say than alchemy is really science "of the day" than we should not discriminate between western and eastern alchemic traditions. The idea of chi is rooted in Chinese inner alchemy – if alchemy is science than it would make chi a scientific idea, and as such make the chi based techniques of EMA based on science.

    Also by magic formulas I mean stuff like name magic.

    C'mon guys what I’m getting at here is not that peoples knowledge about the world back than was inferior to ours, but that it seems that the guys from ARMA are trying to show the superiority of WMA by claiming that they were purely science based and confronting them with the bullshit mystical EMA- its really not that simple.
  8. Suprore is offline

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    Posted On:
    9/08/2010 1:04pm


     Style: Bjj

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    Quote Originally Posted by keyoz View Post
    Oh ok lets not stop there than- is obvious that the old Islamic belief that the djinn (invincible evil spirits) cause diseases was actually the Muslim microbiology “of the day”.

    Alchemy did besides metaphysical and philosophical elements contain some concepts of basic chemistry but so does cooking and it doesn’t make it science. If you would say than alchemy is really science "of the day" than we should not discriminate between western and eastern alchemic traditions. The idea of chi is rooted in Chinese inner alchemy – if alchemy is science than it would make chi a scientific idea, and as such make the chi based techniques of EMA based on science.

    Also by magic formulas I mean stuff like name magic.

    C'mon guys what I’m getting at here is not that peoples knowledge about the world back than was inferior to ours, but that it seems that the guys from ARMA are trying to show the superiority of WMA by claiming that they were purely science based and confronting them with the bullshit mystical EMA- its really not that simple.
    No, they're claiming the combat techniques presented in the manuals are scientifically valid, not that they were invented through a scientific process.
  9. DdlR is offline
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    Posted On:
    9/08/2010 1:04pm

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    Quote Originally Posted by Chimaira View Post
    He actually addressed this. His reasoning was that because the pendulum has swung so far in favor of the Asian arts he knowingly is overzealous in an attempt to balance it out.
    The risk there is that by overstating his case he comes across as just another zealot, not to be taken seriously.
  10. WhiteShark is offline
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    Posted On:
    9/08/2010 1:07pm

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     Style: BJJ/Shidokan

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Keyoz, cooking is totally science ESPECIALLY baking.

    The main difference is Western Science "of the day" actually changed and became today's science. As an example I challenge you to find more modern day turn lead into gold Alchemists than Chi believers.
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