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  1. Hooded Justice is offline
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    Posted On:
    9/07/2010 3:25pm


     Style: Justice/Firearms

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!

    Need some feedback on first gun for a friend.

    Ok so a friend of mine has decided that he wants to get himself a firearm. He has apparently owned a couple old black powder muskets his dad used for hunting but other than that has never owned a handgun, shotgun, or modern rifle. He said it is just a general purpose gun, and he seems to have fixated himself on an H&K 91. These are the specs he has given me.

    Heckler & Koch HK91 .308
    # Cal./Gauge: .308
    # Barrel(s): 20'' including muzzle break.
    # Weight: 12 Lbs. 3 ozs. as pictured.
    # Sights/Scope: Bushnell Banner 3-9x40mm
    # Stock Dimensions: 14 1/2'' LOP
    # Butt/Pad: Serrated hard plastic.
    # Metal Condition: Good to very good. Minor handling marks.
    # Bore Condition: Very good to excellent. Bright, shiny and clean.
    # Extras: Hardcase, 7 magazines total, additonal collapsible stock, black synthetic fore arm, and magazine pouch.

    The Price is listed as $2900.

    Personally I am a cheap bastard and would never spend $3000 on something without a V-8 in it but some arms are simply expensive. Especially as a first "real" weapon for someone. He says he's shot pistols rifles and such before but just hasn't owned any. So bullies what are you opinions on this particular weapon? Is it worth 3k?
  2. Phrost is offline
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    Posted On:
    9/07/2010 3:29pm

    Business Class Supporting Memberstaff
     Guy Who Pays the Bills and Gets the Death Threats Style: MMA (Retired)

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    How much has he shot black powder? The rule of thumb for new firearm purchases is to start with the smallest caliber you can tolerate (.22LR) without it affecting your sense of manhood, so you don't develop bad habits (recoil anticipation, etc).

    For $3k he should get a Ruger 10/22, a CETME, and $2000 worth of ammo. Also, he shouldn't touch the CETME until he's put 1000 rounds through the 10/22, in less than quarter-sized groups, at 50 yards, using only iron sights.
  3. jnp is offline
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    Posted On:
    9/07/2010 4:22pm

    supporting memberforum leaderstaff
     Style: BJJ, wrestling

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Your friend is trying to jump into the deep end when he's barely spent any time in the wading pool.

    Tell him he'll have to spend another $2000 buying ammunition alone in order to learn how to shoot the weapon properly. Since he has no real experience with an assault rifle, he'll need professional instruction if he ever hopes to fire it accurately while under the stress of a real situation. That will also cost money.

    Or he could be smart and buy a decent .22 rifle and spend less than $500 on ammunition. After two or three inexpensive shooting classes and a bit of quality range advice while learning to shoot the .22, he'll be ready to buy that fancy H&K.

    Hell, Cabela's sells it new, minus scope and with only 3 magazines for the same price, so what's the hurry?
  4. Cassius is online now
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    Posted On:
    9/07/2010 4:49pm

    supporting memberforum leader
     Style: Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    I would advise against the H&K91. Admittedly, I'm biased because it sucks to shoot if you're left handed, but still . . . I wanted one a long time ago, because I was sure that 5.56 was just not a man stopper, and I needed srs power. Turns out, I just didn't know what I was talking about, having neither owned nor shot an assault rifle very much.

    Anyway, I echo the advice of getting something MUCH MUCH cheaper until your friend learns to shoot. If he still absolutely has to have an assault rifle, at least steer him toward an M4gery, which will be less than half the price, less expensive to shoot, and more easily customized. If he wants it for self defense, tell him to buy a damn shotgun, and he'll still have a ton of money left over to buy an M4 or whatever else he wants to play with.

    That said, .22lr is pretty hard to beat, factoring in cost of ammo and how fun it is to shoot.
    Last edited by Cassius; 9/07/2010 4:53pm at .
    "No. Listen to me because I know what I'm talking about here." -- Hannibal
  5. Mr. Machette is offline

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    Posted On:
    9/07/2010 5:15pm

    Join us... or die
     Style: FMA, Ego Warrior

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    HK 91? You effing kidding me?

    If he MUST have the German (actually Spanish, but who's counting) roller delayed blow back thing going on, then steer him towards one of these:
    http://www.ptr91.com/

    HK 91 parts kits built on U.S. made recievers. As nice if not nicer than the original German rifle, and one third the cost.

    Of course, He'd probably be better served short term and long term with one of these:
    http://www.raacfirearms.com/Saiga_308.htm

    They can be converted into the standard "AK-103" style with pistol grip, muzzle break, and vented hand guards ect... (They use the same receiver as the AK-100 series.)
  6. Hooded Justice is offline
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    Posted On:
    9/07/2010 5:27pm


     Style: Justice/Firearms

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    So after talking with my friend about the brought up concerns he has informed me that his older brothers both have decent sized collections of rifles and that he has had plenty of experience with firing different size rifles. He is just looking for a rifle that he can shoot and enjoy. He knows that its pricey but he says that "If it's the gun I ultimately want to own, why waste money buying others as practice" which to me makes some sense. I think he is more looking for any kind of mechanical reasons not to buy it.
  7. chainpunch is offline

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    Posted On:
    9/07/2010 5:36pm

    Business Class Supporting Member
      Style: Wing Chun

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    After you get him to buy a .22 get him over to here http://appleseedinfo.org/boot_camps.html to learn to shoot for a low price. He will shoot approximately 1500 at a week long bootcamp for $200 there are also weekend events if he does not want to speed a week shooting.

    update: never mind about the 22 if he is skilled enough.
  8. Cassius is online now
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    Posted On:
    9/07/2010 5:51pm

    supporting memberforum leader
     Style: Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Mr. Machette View Post
    HK 91? You effing kidding me?

    If he MUST have the German (actually Spanish, but who's counting) roller delayed blow back thing going on, then steer him towards one of these:
    http://www.ptr91.com/

    HK 91 parts kits built on U.S. made recievers. As nice if not nicer than the original German rifle, and one third the cost.

    Of course, He'd probably be better served short term and long term with one of these:
    http://www.raacfirearms.com/Saiga_308.htm

    They can be converted into the standard "AK-103" style with pistol grip, muzzle break, and vented hand guards ect... (They use the same receiver as the AK-100 series.)
    If he absolutely must have his rifle, I would agree with the PTR-91 as well. They're really nice. And new. And Amurrcan.
    "No. Listen to me because I know what I'm talking about here." -- Hannibal
  9. Vorpal is offline
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    Posted On:
    9/07/2010 6:09pm

    Join us... or die
     Style: BJJ

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    If your friend has that much cash to throw around tell him to come to NYC and take me to some strip clubs.
  10. Mr. Machette is offline

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    Posted On:
    9/07/2010 6:20pm

    Join us... or die
     Style: FMA, Ego Warrior

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Hooded Justice View Post
    So after talking with my friend about the brought up concerns he has informed me that his older brothers both have decent sized collections of rifles and that he has had plenty of experience with firing different size rifles. He is just looking for a rifle that he can shoot and enjoy. He knows that its pricey but he says that "If it's the gun I ultimately want to own, why waste money buying others as practice" which to me makes some sense. I think he is more looking for any kind of mechanical reasons not to buy it.
    Ok, I've got one.

    It's "mechanically" identical to the PTR91, only it's three times as expensive and used.
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