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  1. HenryT is offline

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    Posted On:
    9/06/2010 2:37pm


     

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    My apologies.
  2. Larus marinus is offline
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    Posted On:
    9/07/2010 2:30am

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sri Hanuman View Post
    I think the largest indicator of what is true or false in this instance, was the sudden change of the website content. Why suddenly change it rather than back up the claims posted? That looked like a pretty dramatic cut in claims, a lot of content was removed.

    Good thing we have screen shots of original content. Thumbs up, Larus Marinus.
    Just to clarify, Sri - have you noticed something else that's changed on the *current* website?

    Also to clarify - the content from Alexander's previous sites was found using the Internet Archive, most of it dating back a few years. As far as I am aware, these sites were already offline when this whole thing started - or at least when I first looked, shortly after the Chris Allen thread began.

    Now, onwards...

    A little on karate, from the 2004 version of the site:
    http://web.archive.org/web/200412052...f+Zen+Shin.htm

    screencap:
    http://img808.imageshack.us/img808/3...hin1283843.png

    Quote Originally Posted by the link above
    In the early days of British karate, around 1969, completely disillusioned by karate tuitionmethods and styles, Jon Alexander founded his own style of martial arts which he called Za-Zen-Karate-Zen-Shin-Ryu. Jon was the first Westerner to break away from the traditional methods of training and his Monji, the character “KYU” with a surrounding well support, became very well known and is still in use today around the world along with other Monji or logos of Za-Zen-Karate-Kai. He formulated his own Kata, techniques and kumite (fighting methods). Fighting was a strong aspect of Zen-Shin at that time, although now the style is non-contact based.
    The late Sensei KEINOSUKE ENOEDA once remarked, “I even met a Sensei who teaches “sit down” karate (Za-Zen means sit down). However, after training with him he came to realise that Jon meant to train with a meditative mind as in Za-Zen (meditation sitting). Zen-Shin-Ryu translates as New Way Zen School, implying an original new way of looking at things, with a new mind, unfettered by traditionalism, dogma and totally unnecessary and harmful training methods that would not be tolerated today. Many early Senseis were openly bullying students and damaging their mental and physical abilities by extensive bunny jumping by the hundreds, press ups, running over London bridges on the parapet (they called this the 5 Bridge Challenge), over stretching and fierce kumite with little or no control. Jon remembers bunny jumping with his hands behind his back, up and down the bare concrete staircase of the London Karate-Kai in St. Oswald's Place, London, run by the late Eric Dominy and George Chew. Illustrious Senseis at that time included Robert Ashing, Steve Morris, Vince Jauncey, Bill Wright, Steve Arniell and many other high-ranking Japanese Senseis. The main style taught was KYOKUSHINKAI with Goju inclusions.
    · By the end of 1972, Jon had established over 70 Zen-Shin Clubs throughout Great Britain and abroad. His success continued for many years until, in 1984, Jon decided to move to Cornwall to re-establish his ideas and re-formulate his style. He was greatly assisted at that time by his old friend and erstwhile instructor "Mad Bull" Sensei Gary Reeves, 8th Dan, who now lives in Torquay, Devon. Gary also invites any old students and friends to contact him through this website.

    Jon's success continues to this day with many old students eventually finding their way back to his original teaching. He even had to advise a Martial Arts magazine that reports of his death were "greatly exaggerated".

    Za-Zen-Karate-Zen-Shin-Ryu later adapted its title to Zen-Shin-Do and latterly to Zen-Shin-Budo-Kai, with various other branches in martial arts. The main karate style now practiced is Zen-Shin-Goju-Karate. As a historical note the club MONJI (Badge) was taken from a Censor's Seal, used on the wood block prints of KUNIYOSHI a famous painter of the 19th century.
    Jon would like to pay a special tribute to David Cockerton, 9th Dan. Martial Artist, Japanese Historian, Master Swordsman, late of London SE9.12 areas. Where are you now??
    David was the only Westerner ever to be made an "Honorary Samurai" by the late EMPEROR HIROHITO of Japan.
    http://web.archive.org/web/200412050...Karate-Kai.htm

    screencap:
    http://img180.imageshack.us/img180/3...alartskara.png

    Zen - Shin - Goju – Karate
    is a pure, non-contact, Okinawan/Chinese Karate style
    “Goju” means HARD/SOFT
    which can be interpreted as
    all techniques and Kata of Zen-Shin-Goju-Karate
    can be performed on a scale of 1-10.
    LEVEL 1
    is soft almost Tai - Chi like moves
    LEVEL 5
    is moderate and will contain variations between Level 1 and Level 5
    LEVELS 5 - 10
    are moderate to extreme power
    Some of the unique aspects of
    Zen-Shin-Goju- Karate
    are

    • that you can vary your performance of technique and Kata as befits your daily feeling and physical condition. All technique and Kata can be done with equal use of hand and fist.
    • Most training is performed in your usual basic stance e.g. right handed (right leg back, left fist forward) with no over emphasis on training the left side, as statistics show that you will always take the defensive position that you feel safest in.
    • We do not waste time in ineffective and unnecessary stretching or strength training exercises as there is more than enough physical training, body conditioning and strength and power improvement within the Zen-Shin-Goju-Karate style itself.
    • We do not normally kick above the waist, as this is not practical in most street situations
    • We also believe that if an aggressor cannot walk he cannot fight, if he cannot see he cannot fight, if he cannot breathe he cannot fight.
    • Zen-Shin-Goju-Karate believes in ”KOROSHI” i.e. 1 punch/kick finish.
    • Zen-Shin-Goju-Karate believes in pre-empting any actual threat of attack, with the emphasis on the saying “it is better to be tried by12 than carried by 4.

    HIT HARD, HIT FAST, HIT FIRST.
    Whatever your Karate style or grade, we can offer you an intensive remedial course, which will improve your technique and Kata, without altering your present style in any way, dramatically increasing your ability and chances of passing your next grading.
    Why not switch styles and teach Zen-Shin-Goju-Karate in your area or complete an intensive course and add Zen-Shin-Goju to compliment your present style?
  3. Rock Ape is offline
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    Posted On:
    9/07/2010 4:44am

    staff
     

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    It's interesting how much comes out in the wash, isn't it.
    Quote Originally Posted by reminiscent anecdote of Mr. Alexander's opinion
    ..//. pieces of paper can say whatever they want, because in the end, belts mean sh*t.
    But yet...
    Quote Originally Posted by Mr. Alexander's website
    ..//..we can offer you an intensive remedial course, which will improve your technique and Kata, without altering your present style in any way, dramatically increasing your ability and chances of passing your next grading.
    But despite this offer of physical improvement...
    Quote Originally Posted by More anecdotal referencing
    Sensei Alexander will train you in a weekend and give you whatever belt colour you desire
    Contradiction extrodinaire
    "To sin by silence when one should protest makes cowards out of men".

    ~Ella Wheeler
  4. HenryT is offline

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    Posted On:
    9/07/2010 6:19am


     

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    In one of the photos on his website, I see that Mr Alexander is wearing a gi with the Goju-Ryu fist badge on it. I’m open to correction, but I think this badge is the copyrighted property of the Yamaguchi family. Presumably Mr Alexander has permission to wear it. It so, this is a point in favour of his genuineness, isn’t it? I'm trying to be fair, here. Though in the same photograph he is holding a Japanese certificate upside down ...

    Speaking of fairness: it was pointed out to me in a pm yesterday that one of my responses to Jay was inappropriate and rude. I apologise for this.
  5. Larus marinus is offline
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    Posted On:
    9/07/2010 8:43am

    Join us... or die
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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    In one of the photos on his website, I see that Mr Alexander is wearing a gi with the Goju-Ryu fist badge on it. I’m open to correction, but I think this badge is the copyrighted property of the Yamaguchi family. Presumably Mr Alexander has permission to wear it. It so, this is a point in favour of his genuineness, isn’t it? I'm trying to be fair, here. Though in the same photograph he is holding a Japanese certificate upside down ...
    This photo? (it's always a good idea to save a copy, upload it somewhere and link it here - websites can change)




    I also found something else WRT JA's training/ranking history (assuming that he actually wrote this):

    http://freespace.virgin.net/the.end/...guestbook.html

    Quote Originally Posted by that guestbook

    Name:
    Jon Alexander
    E-mail:
    <removed by L.M.>
    Comments:
    Dear Sensei Holt I cannot beleive it it has been so many years that you were kind enough to add to my certification. You may remember thr old Za-Zen Karate Zen Shin Ryu. Look us up on our website www.orientalmartialarts.org I still have your certificate in fact I looked at them just today by coincidence. Great to see that you are still around and that your association is flourishing. Look forward to hearing from you? in due course. Shihan Jon Alexander 9th Dan
    Club:
    Zen Shin Budi Kai
    Date created: Tue Feb 17 17:45:48 2004
    Sensei Holt is John Alexander Holt of the Tegatani System (anyone? looks like some sort of Kempo-derived thing?).

    http://freespace.virgin.net/the.end/...ni/founder.htm


    Something else just jumped right out at me when re-reading:

    Quote Originally Posted by Mr Alexander's website linked in my previous post
    We also believe that if an aggressor cannot walk he cannot fight, if he cannot see he cannot fight, if he cannot breathe he cannot fight.
    This is almost a direct quotation of the three rules given by the bad guy in Karate Kid, part III (when Daniel is beating up on the wooden man in the dojo). :eusa_eh:
  6. HenryT is offline

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    Posted On:
    9/07/2010 9:09am


     

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Tegatani seems to be a kind of eclectic/Ju jitsu system - this is a bio page from Professor Holt's website:

    http://www.tegatani.org/founder.php

    "In 1977 he was graded by Prof. R. Sacharnowski 10th dan ..." That name rings a bell somehow.
  7. Rock Ape is offline
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    Posted On:
    9/07/2010 9:38am

    staff
     

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    "To sin by silence when one should protest makes cowards out of men".

    ~Ella Wheeler
  8. HenryT is offline

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    Posted On:
    9/07/2010 10:21am


     

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    I just noticed a small but strange thing.

    Mr Alexander says, in one of his paragraphs: ‘The late Sensei KEINOSUKE ENOEDA once remarked, “I even met a Sensei who teaches “sit down” karate ...” However, after training with him he came to realise that Jon meant to train with a meditative mind as in Za-Zen (meditation sitting). Zen-Shin-Ryu translates as New Way Zen School, implying an original new way of looking at things ...’.

    On the face of it, this is a simple name-drop (it means: “I taught the great Enoeda something”). But ...

    on the wall behind the students in these photographs, “Zen Shin” is written as 禅心 – “Zen heart” or “mind”.

    http://www.martialartstrainer.org.uk...x222_cert5.jpg

    In trying to make “Zen Shin Ryu” mean “New Way Zen School” rather than “Zen Heart School”, Mr Alexander is confusing “Shin” (“mind”- 心) and “Shin” (“new” - 新) – presumably having looked up “Shin” in his Romaji-to-Kanji dictionary and picked the wrong one.

    Yes, I’m being pedantic. But isn’t this a strangely elementary mistake for someone so steeped in Japanese culture and tradition, and taught by eminent Japanese teachers, to make?

    It’s been said before in these forums that there’s no quicker way to make a fool of yourself than by pretending to know Japanese when you don’t. I mean no impoliteness in saying it, but I suspect that Mr Alexander doesn’t really know a word of Japanese - despite having ‘formally trained’ with several Japanese teachers and having a “grading scroll” (menkyo kaiden?) signed by (as Jay put it) “old Japanese dudes”.

    Another rat to smell? Or is it just me?
  9. Larus marinus is offline
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    Posted On:
    9/07/2010 10:33am

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!

    On the subject of karate kids...

    Now, I don't know if you guys are aware - but possessing a simple library card allows a man to access the http://www.newsbank.com/ archive for free from the comfort of his own home (or at least mine does), which contains digital copies of stories from local and national UK newspapers, many of which are not available using free services such as Google News...

    Excepted from an article entitled 'Top fighters in 'Battle of the Celts'' in the Western Morning News - dated Thursday, October 12, 2000

    One of the highlights of the evening was a demonstration of sword katas (forms) by <name of child redacted by L.M>, of St Austell, with her 9th degree black belt Sensei, Jon Alexander .

    <name of child redacted by L.M> is just nine years old, making her the youngest person in Britain to hold a black belt for the Japanese sword.
    <name of child redacted by L.M> and John both wore traditional Samurai costume and she used a 26-inch katana (Samurai sword) to perform her katas.
    Excepted from an article entitled '<name of child redacted by L.M.> impressed a crowd of hundreds at a martial arts extravaganza with her sword skills' in the Western Morning News - dated Thursday, October 19, 2000

    <name of child redacted by L.M> (pictured above) impressed a crowd of hundreds at a martial arts extravaganza with her sword skills.

    At nine-years-old,
    <name of child redacted by L.M>, from Bodmin, is the youngest sword lady in Britain.

    Brandishing a sparkling samurai sword at the Battle of the Celts at Hendra Holiday Park in Newquay last week, she gave a demonstration of her weaponry skills with her coach, Jon Alexander .

    I was a bit nervous but I just concentrated, said
    <name of child redacted by L.M>. Jon had told me some tricks to do if I got nervous and it worked.

    When I had finished a little butterfly fluttered on to the ring in front of me, which Jon said is supposed to be a good sign.

    <name of child redacted by L.M>, who trains at the Zen-Shin-Goju Karate-Kai Club in St Austell, was given loud applause for the demonstration, which was staged in between contests being held at the event in a variety of martial arts.
    I will provide the full articles to site admin on request. The child's name has been redacted for privacy purposes.

    Aside from the whole '9 year old blackbelt thing', it must be quite strenuous to swing around a sword that's more than half your own body-length (average height of a 9y.o. girl is 47 inches, according to the internet) at that age, huh?
    Last edited by Larus marinus; 9/07/2010 10:49am at .
  10. Larus marinus is offline
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    Posted On:
    9/07/2010 11:18am

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    Quote Originally Posted by HenryT View Post
    In trying to make “Zen Shin Ryu” mean “New Way Zen School” rather than “Zen Heart School”, Mr Alexander is confusing “Shin” (“mind”- 心) and “Shin” (“new” - 新) – presumably having looked up “Shin” in his Romaji-to-Kanji dictionary and picked the wrong one.

    Yes, I’m being pedantic. But isn’t this a strangely elementary mistake for someone so steeped in Japanese culture and tradition, and taught by eminent Japanese teachers, to make?

    It’s been said before in these forums that there’s no quicker way to make a fool of yourself than by pretending to know Japanese when you don’t. I mean no impoliteness in saying it, but I suspect that Mr Alexander doesn’t really know a word of Japanese - despite having ‘formally trained’ with several Japanese teachers and having a “grading scroll” (menkyo kaiden?) signed by (as Jay put it) “old Japanese dudes”.

    Another rat to smell? Or is it just me?
    Hey, Henry - would you be able to confirm for us whether the same error is present here (capped from the YouTube vids)?



    Purely as a matter of interest, are you able to translate the writing on JA's hachimaki here (may give us an idea as to JA's understanding of Japanese, may not)?



    ...and the writing behind JA and his students here?
    Last edited by Larus marinus; 9/07/2010 11:22am at .
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