Jon Alexander - Zen Shin Budo Kai / Zen Shin Budo Alliance, Cornwall, UK.

**StraightUpMA** · Posted On: 9/21/2011 3:31am

From his website(s), his videos, the stories I've heard on here.

I was trying to add a new bit of info, that is - he taught a guy who is a well known nutter. Infer what you want from that, I was merely saying that from looking at the material on JA's site, and knowing a bit about Delane's activities, that there were some striking similarities. In my opinion.

**Rock Ape** · Posted On: 9/21/2011 12:10pm

Originally Posted by StraightUpMA

- pretty proficient at martial arts

Well, given what I've seen of both Delane and Alexander, I wouldn't in my wildest imagination describe what they do as "proficient"... and that's a major issue when combined with the vastly over inflated grades and titles they claim to have.

**Rock Ape** · Posted On: 9/21/2011 12:12pm

Originally Posted by StraightUpMA

..//.. there were some striking similarities. In my opinion.

If your opinion is they are both fucking shite at what they do then yes, your opinion would be both valid and inline with what is generally thought here.

**StraightUpMA** · Posted On: 9/21/2011 12:53pm

To be fair, I always thought Delane was pretty handy at Karate, as far as it goes. So much bull though...

**Rock Ape** · Posted On: 9/21/2011 7:06pm

Originally Posted by StraightUpMA

To be fair, I always thought Delane was pretty handy at Karate, as far as it goes. So much bull though...

So what exposure have you to Delane ?

**StraightUpMA** · Posted On: 9/22/2011 12:20am

I trained there. For a long time. Too bloody long!
Saw him in action, went to loads of private seminars etc.
When I started, it was pretty much about the Karate, and as far as I've seen at other places, it was pretty good Karate, based mostly on Wado and Kyushikai. As the ego of the man grew, more and more bull came along with it, until we hardly did any physical training, just sat around talking about 'Zen.' Most of which was either nicked or nonsense.

**Rock Ape** · Posted On: 9/23/2011 6:24am

Do you have a line on where his grades and titles have emerged from over the years?

If you trained with him for a reasonable period of time, did you grade to black belt in any of Delane's martial arts ?

**StraightUpMA** · Posted On: 9/23/2011 8:03am

No, Nobody really does. He waved a load of certificates about in a video rant once (I think to answer some internet criticism), but nobody got a close look at them. The only official grade I of Delane's I was aware of was his black belt (first dan maybe?) from John Alexander's Zenishin Ryu. When he and some others split from them, the story goes he then awarded himself a 5th dan in the pub and started Bushido Karate. Looking at the videos I've seen of Zenshin Ryu, the styles are unsurprisingly very similar.

I was there for over 10 years, got to first dan in Bushido Karate.

The best and most accurate version of events comes from Murray Bruton (link further up I think), the former number two. He was there for a lot longer than I was and always seemed like a decent guy the times I met him.

**hellis** · Posted On: 9/23/2011 9:37am

" Awarded 5th dan in a pub "

That is why as Dave stressed earlier, lineage is important - you can then trace the person back to a good source - or not.
If you trace the lineage back to a pub then perhaps your grade has the same value as a beer mat.
I saw the photo of Mr Delanes casual look with the gi and black belt over the shoulder, as far back as 50 years ago I would make students do extra push ups for doing just that, why not wear a hat with { I am a Black Belt }.

**StraightUpMA** · Posted On: 9/23/2011 10:16am

Haha I'm aware of that. (Bit too late now!) From what I've seen of other Karate, my grade was worth something, to me at least. It's not officially sanctioned, but the standard at that time was good and I worked damn hard. Just wish I'd left at that point and explored something else rather than stagnating and getting worse. As did standards in general, in fact. The black belts coming up when I left were largely pretty poor. As for all the other guff that went with it...