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  1. AMF is offline
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    Posted On:
    9/04/2010 9:40pm


     Style: Fitness-Fu and Judo

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!

    Judo and sprinting

    So after a long hiatus I am back doing judo again.

    Now I consider myself in pretty fair shape. I circuit train weights, calisthenics, plyometrics twice a week, Mon/Thu, and run uphill sprints on Tue/Fri.

    However I had my first class today and it damn near killed me. My ass was dragging not even half way through the first hour. So I went to judoinfo looking for info on cardio for Judo and found this:



    Sprinting

    A quick note you can do all this interval training by sprinting as well. Please be aware that running uphill (although gets your HR through the roof) should not be used when tapering for competition. This is due to the fact that running uphill is a concentric movement (muscle building) and is slow a sluggish and trains your muscles to be slow, something we don't want leading up to a competition.

    If you are going to sprint as part of tapering you must either perform your sprits on a flat surface or even better, by running downhill. I'm not talking about running down a steep cliff but at a decline that lets you safely run faster than you usually do without the risk of falling over. Downhill sprints are an eccentric movement and the theory is that if you are running faster than you normally are you are training your muscles to be explosive and fast. Leading up to the 2000 Olympics Gold medallist Judo player David Douillett only ran downhill as part of his cardio regime. This, along with other studies proves that down hill running increase speed, power and explosiveness above all other forms of running. The only problem with it is because it is eccentric the body takes a while to recover.
    Much to my dismay I find that uphill sprints are a detriment in regards to having good cardio for judo.

    But........

    I have read in a few books and magazine articles that Greg jackson has his fighters do uphill sand dune sprints and they're supposed to be in phenominal shape.

    So what gives, should I be switching to downhill sprints? Or stick with uphill sprints?
  2. Lindz is online now

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    Posted On:
    9/04/2010 9:52pm

    Join us... or die
     Style: Judo

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    You're already training 4 days a week and then you added judo on top. How rested were you when you went?
  3. AMF is offline
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    Posted On:
    9/04/2010 9:54pm


     Style: Fitness-Fu and Judo

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Pretty well rested, 8 hours of sleep.
  4. Lindz is online now

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    Posted On:
    9/04/2010 9:58pm

    Join us... or die
     Style: Judo

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    I mean when was the last time you'd trained before judo and how hard had you gone.
  5. AMF is offline
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    Posted On:
    9/04/2010 10:17pm


     Style: Fitness-Fu and Judo

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    AHHHHH, I see.
    Thursday I did my circuit training routine, and Friday I had to skip sprints b/c as soon as I got home from school my wife left to take our 3 year old on a play date, so I had to hang out with our 8 month old. (which was a good time)
  6. AMF is offline
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    Posted On:
    9/04/2010 10:19pm


     Style: Fitness-Fu and Judo

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    As far as the circuits went, I did 2 rounds of circuits on weights, 2 rounds of circuits on calisthenics, and two rounds of plyometrics. 1 min of rest between sets.
  7. mike321 is offline

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    Posted On:
    9/04/2010 10:33pm


     Style: kenpo, Wrestling

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    OP,

    The info you looked up seemed pretty specific about not doing uphill right before getting ready for competition. Practice is not competition so I don't see any need to eliminate an exercise you like.
  8. tyciol is offline

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    Posted On:
    9/24/2010 2:54pm


     Style: Tae Kwon-Do, Fencing

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Arguing against running uphill because it trains you to be slow is like arguing against doing push-ups because it will make your punches slow. Obviously you're not going to train strength to failure immediately before a competition when you want to be fresh. You should always taper down the strength work so that you can train your nervous system and fast-twitch fibers to work specifically with your art's attack techniques so that those techniques will be at the max when you need them.

    It's sort of like how you would switch from doing benching or pushups to doing bag or mitt work, it doesn't mean you shouldn't do them at all, just make sure you transfer those gains to more specific drills when you peak for competing.

    As for running downhill: I don't know why on earth they think this would make you more explosive. David Douillitt happening to only do this and winning a gold medal is not at all scientific proof of it being superior (or even equal) in explosiveness.

    Most of what I read about eccentric training is that it actually tends to cause more soreness and more hypertrophy. Whereas concentric training is what teaches you to actually generate force ('explode') as opposed to controlling and absorbing force.

    Eccentric training obviously would have a place in judo and other defensive arts because you benefit from being able to control and absorb your opponent's force, especially when you're facing a bigger opponent. In terms of explosiveness and being faster and applying your own acceleration, one would think that concentric would be better.

    Another thing is chain dominance. Due to the incline, I'd guess running uphill to be more posterior-chain dominant and running downhill to be more quad-dominant. That's how it feels anyway, anyone else experience something different?

    Another issue about long-term training is that uphill sprinting is low impact and downhill sprinting is high-impact. It's an important thing for people with joint problems to consider. You can get away with weird stuff like running in a weighted vest while going uphill compared to doing it on a level terrain which is more problematic.

    For people who train in a fatigued state: if you fall running uphill, it's a shorter distance to the ground. Compare this to if you fall running downhill, big distance and you pretty much have to drop into a forward roll to avoid mashing up your hands. You really have to focus on leaning back for safety when running downhill so that if you do fall, it's backwards onto your ass. It's counter-intuitive though and weird trying to move fast with that kind of lean.
    Last edited by tyciol; 9/24/2010 2:58pm at .
  9. LarsCG is offline

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    Posted On:
    9/24/2010 4:52pm


     Style: Judo/Roadwork

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Lately I've had some days where I've done SL 5x5 somewhere around lunchtime and Judo at 18:00 or later. It's been "Ohfeckinchristonabikethissucksssss...!" I'm edging up towards the grand old age of 38 though, which definitely might play a part in how I feel.

    Rest is important. Never underestimate it. Hopefully, for my own part, I can get to a level of fitness where I can have 2 rest-days per week without being a total wreck. Currently it's 2-3 (sometimes 4) sessions of Judo per week, 1 session of karate, 2 sessions of SL 5x5. And it's taking its toll.

    On the plus side, I'm down 9 kg since May, and I have visible abs for the first time since I was 23-24.

    So, yeah... =)

    Regards,
    Lars
  10. War Wizard is offline
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    Posted On:
    9/25/2010 12:17am


     Style: Judo - Boxing

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by LarsCG View Post
    Lately I've had some days where I've done SL 5x5 somewhere around lunchtime and Judo at 18:00 or later. It's been "Ohfeckinchristonabikethissucksssss...!"
    Yeah.......figured out a while back that heavy lifting and Judo on the same day never goes well. I'm 25 and it still damn near killed my ass.
    "Keep a sharp knife, shiny boots and be on time."
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