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  1. battlefields is offline
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    Posted On:
    9/02/2010 12:10am

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     Style: BJJ/ MMA/ MT

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    I don't know about your workplace, but that **** isn't acceptable in mine.
  2. devilboy7778 is offline

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    Posted On:
    9/02/2010 12:14am


     Style: Working out

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by battlefields View Post
    I don't know about your workplace, but that **** isn't acceptable in mine.
    Yeah his is full of kangaroos
    they would beat the living **** out of you
    AND EAT YOUR BABY
  3. speedycerviche is offline

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    Posted On:
    9/02/2010 12:20am


     Style: BJJ, Judo

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    I think it could work as long as the two people are of comparable skill in ground grappling and so long as you modify it to fit your game and circumstance. A Judo brown belt I used to train with had done many years of Wing Chun and said that one thing he got out of it was being better at grip fighting. From my limited experience in sticking hands and trapping it is very similar to how you fight for grips and controls in grappling.
  4. battlefields is offline
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    Posted On:
    9/02/2010 12:33am

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    The point being made is not "two people of comparable ground" skill and one will be better off if they did chun, the OP was saying a chunner could work chun while on the ground. It's bullshit. Full stop. No need to explore.
  5. speedycerviche is offline

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    Posted On:
    9/02/2010 12:39am


     Style: BJJ, Judo

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by battlefields View Post
    The point being made is not "two people of comparable ground" skill and one will be better off if they did chun, the OP was saying a chunner could work chun while on the ground. It's bullshit. Full stop. No need to explore.
    I do not think he was saying a "chunner" could do it but rather the techniques of Wing Chun could be used in conjuction with other ground grappling techniques. Which seems like it could be true.
  6. Petter is offline

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    Posted On:
    9/02/2010 12:40am


     Style: BJJ, judo, rapier

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by speedycerviche View Post
    I think it could work as long as the two people are of comparable skill in ground grappling and so long as you modify it to fit your game and circumstance.
    As an aside (which does not contradict the above), if it only works on people “of comparable skill in ground grappling”, that directly implies that one’s time is better spent just working ground grappling (e.g. 2 years grappling + 2 years Chun < 4 years grappling).
    [ petterhaggholm.net | blog | essays ]
    [ self defence: general thoughts | bjj: “don’t go to the ground”? ]
    “The plural of anecdote is anecdotes, not data.”
  7. speedycerviche is offline

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    Posted On:
    9/02/2010 12:43am


     Style: BJJ, Judo

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    Quote Originally Posted by Petter View Post
    As an aside (which does not contradict the above), if it only works on people “of comparable skill in ground grappling”, that directly implies that one’s time is better spent just working ground grappling (e.g. 2 years grappling + 2 years Chun < 4 years grappling).
    I do not think he is saying do Wing Chun but is saying there are techniques that can be used in ground grappling from Wing Chun which can be added to the persons existing ground game.
  8. battlefields is offline
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    Posted On:
    9/02/2010 1:08am

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Still don't buy it, this is an argument commonly used by the its-a-complete-martial-art set, "you can do the exact techniques on the ground". No, you can't. The ground is completely different from standing.

    You say that someone with wing chun experience had good grip fighting skills. I'm pretty sure his grip fighting skills would've plateau'd when he got to brown belt in Judo, it might've worked against the lower grades as he was coming up and it was starkly contrasted, but I doubt his chun gave him anything useable against a brown belt, or even a couple of ranks lower.

    I am not going to grip fight with someone who seems to be blocking all my attempts to grab, am I? No, I'm double legging the **** out of them. Once on the ground, they can try and trap my arms, but unless they know more about ground fighting than me, they will be fighting my weight. I don't chi sao motherfuckers while I posture up.

    EDIT: Missed your last post. Someone who had done the chun for a few years then did grappling for two years, verse someone with no other training but two years grappling, maybe, through anatomical knowledge alone, would the first guy be able to use chun techniques. Maybe.
    Last edited by battlefields; 9/02/2010 1:11am at .
  9. speedycerviche is offline

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    Posted On:
    9/02/2010 2:39am


     Style: BJJ, Judo

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    Quote Originally Posted by battlefields View Post
    Still don't buy it, this is an argument commonly used by the its-a-complete-martial-art set, "you can do the exact techniques on the ground". No, you can't. The ground is completely different from standing.

    You say that someone with wing chun experience had good grip fighting skills. I'm pretty sure his grip fighting skills would've plateau'd when he got to brown belt in Judo, it might've worked against the lower grades as he was coming up and it was starkly contrasted, but I doubt his chun gave him anything useable against a brown belt, or even a couple of ranks lower.

    I am not going to grip fight with someone who seems to be blocking all my attempts to grab, am I? No, I'm double legging the **** out of them. Once on the ground, they can try and trap my arms, but unless they know more about ground fighting than me, they will be fighting my weight. I don't chi sao motherfuckers while I posture up.

    EDIT: Missed your last post. Someone who had done the chun for a few years then did grappling for two years, verse someone with no other training but two years grappling, maybe, through anatomical knowledge alone, would the first guy be able to use chun techniques. Maybe.
    Many concepts and techinques work similar in both the standing and ground phases of grappling. Arm drags are a fantastic example of this also sumi/hikkikomi gaeshi sweeps from gaurd and maki komi techniques from turtle share the same basic principals as standing as in ground. I know there are many differences but the principals are basiclly the same and can adapted maybe like the Wing Chun techniques can.

    He was a brown belt for a long time before I met him and he had be doing Judo for a fair while and did randori with plenty of experienced players and he still held that opinion.

    You will also then be disqualified. Who said he just blocks grips he also takes his favourite grips like anyother grip fighter. If he is of comparable grappling skill shooting for a leg attack wont be that easy espically if he is keeping you out of range or get his best grips. If you posture up he would do something more appropiate and work other things he is not limited to Wing Chun techniques.

    All people are saying that some Wing Chun techniques or concepts could have use in certain situations in ground grappling. No one is saying to train in Wing Chun or saying that Wing Chun is better the normal ground grappling all they are saying is that some concepts may be useful at certain times which makes sense IMHO.
  10. battlefields is offline
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    Posted On:
    9/02/2010 3:10am

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    I see your point.
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