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  1. #1

    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Location
    Apple Valley, CA
    Posts
    61
    Style
    Kunst des Fechten, Judo
    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!

    Solo Training German Longsword

    As is the way of the world, I have to leave something I love for something I love. There's a job in California I took, but I'm having to leave my HEMA study group behind. I'm going to miss these guys and our teacher. I built this group, found members, got us a teacher, found us good equipment, and damn it all I am going to miss them!

    So, while there are a number of HEMA groups in California, there aren't any in my immediate area. The school I've been invited to study at is an hour and a half away, which is just far enough to make it an infrequent rather than constant activity. Thus I'm resigned to spending most of my time studying alone.

    My current foundations in HEMA are a bit eclectic/mishmashed. We started with Meyer's longsword, added some Ringeck when we found a teacher, and have included Wallerstein's Ringen.

    Given this, what manual would I best be served picking up and using as the basis of my own, private study? I will have ample space at my new home, there's quite a huge backyard from the sat photos.

  2. #2

    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Location
    Sherburne NY
    Posts
    58
    Style
    Arnis Kali
    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    My go to is De Liberi (Italian, but the Germanic influence is clear), and of course it is hard to go wrong with Mark Rector's (from the CSG) translation of Talhofer.

  3. #3

    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Location
    Spokanistan, WA
    Posts
    91
    Style
    HEMA, Judo, Bjj
    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    I'd stick with Meyer and others in the Lichtenauer tradition and add in some Fiore.

    Build a Pell if you don't already have one. Jay Vail's book Medieval and Renaissance Dagger is pretty good for Ringen+dagger, which translates into Ringen am schwert fairly well.

    While you're flying solo spend some time studying fechtbuchs. Make some friends, show them how to attack along the segno, basic guards, guard flow, and then start beating the crap out of them, er, free playing.

    You can also use a heavy bag to work Fuhlen, do Meyer devices solo (I do these on a pell before I introduce them to our study group).

    Work attributes (like in Stew Feil's article on the HEMA alliance) Flourish for speed, and endurance. Beat a pell for power. Test cut. Run, go all rocky four training montage YouTube- Training Montage - Rocky IV....

    Take some Judo, or Wrestling to give you a good feel for Ringen.

  4. #4

    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Posts
    499
    Style
    Jiu-jitsu & HEMA
    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    For the most part I agree with Spungdeeper, although I would have begun with the advice: "Take some Judo, or Wrestling to give you a good feel for Ringen" & probably put the text in bold.

    If you're stuck training on your own it's a good time to work on your attributes & conditioning. Do lots of footwork exercises, flourish, hit the pell, do test cutting. Alternatively you can try to meet new people & start a new group. All good advice.

    As an "aliveness nazi" I do disagree with the idea that a heavy bag can be used to develop fuhlen. Fuhlen is the ability to feel if an opponent's position of leverage is strong or weak & whether their attachment to you is hard or soft (a push or a pull). As such it is fundamentally a reactive quality. A pell or a heavy bag move only as they are acted upon & their movements are predictable, therefore they cannot effectively aid in the development of fuhlen.

  5. #5

    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Location
    Apple Valley, CA
    Posts
    61
    Style
    Kunst des Fechten, Judo
    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Ok, I've narrowed down the texts to either Meyer (kinda sporty, not sure if that's what I want) or Ringeck (not quite as 'complete' as Meyer).

    I like both, just not sure which I should focus on. Perhaps both?

    Thoughts?

    Thanks for the information so far guys, it's been helpful. And I'll include that Italian guy after I've got more grounding in the books I'm currently studying!

  6. #6

    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Location
    London
    Posts
    55
    Style
    WMA Lichtenauer Longsword
    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by william_cain View Post
    Ok, I've narrowed down the texts to either Meyer (kinda sporty, not sure if that's what I want) or Ringeck (not quite as 'complete' as Meyer).

    I like both, just not sure which I should focus on. Perhaps both?

    Thoughts?

    Thanks for the information so far guys, it's been helpful. And I'll include that Italian guy after I've got more grounding in the books I'm currently studying!
    I'd say Ringeck, with Von Danzig and "Dobringer" to supplement. Actually, I prefer Dobringer, but it's almost just a taste issue :P Meyer, if used as a source in relative isolation, does suffer from the way a lot of the thrust-orientated stuff is filed under "Rappier".

    I wouldn't begin studying Fiore until you're fairly happy with your Lichtenauer. I don't want to turn this into a "One System For All Europe" thread, but I think there's enough core differences that there's a lot of potential to confuse rather than improve your understanding...

  7. #7

    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Location
    Apple Valley, CA
    Posts
    61
    Style
    Kunst des Fechten, Judo
    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Alright, I'll grab hold of Ringeck next time I get paid.

    Which was...today!

    *rubs hands gleefully*

  8. #8

    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Location
    Spokanistan, WA
    Posts
    91
    Style
    HEMA, Judo, Bjj
    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by SBG-ape View Post
    For the most part I agree with Spungdeeper, although I would have begun with the advice: "Take some Judo, or Wrestling to give you a good feel for Ringen" & probably put the text in bold.

    If you're stuck training on your own it's a good time to work on your attributes & conditioning. Do lots of footwork exercises, flourish, hit the pell, do test cutting. Alternatively you can try to meet new people & start a new group. All good advice.

    As an "aliveness nazi" I do disagree with the idea that a heavy bag can be used to develop fuhlen. Fuhlen is the ability to feel if an opponent's position of leverage is strong or weak & whether their attachment to you is hard or soft (a push or a pull). As such it is fundamentally a reactive quality. A pell or a heavy bag move only as they are acted upon & their movements are predictable, therefore they cannot effectively aid in the development of fuhlen.
    I totally agree with you about the necessity of "aliveness" of fuhlen and was merely suggesting an approximation sans partners.

    The rest of my post in no way was in order of importance, but more order out of my head, which suggests I need to do some neural restructuring. Yeah definitely place the Judo and Wrestling in bold

  9. #9

    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Location
    Apple Valley, CA
    Posts
    61
    Style
    Kunst des Fechten, Judo
    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Well, recently ordered a copy of Lindholm's Ringeck translations (Longsword, and Knightly Combat). Shouldn't take too long to get here, hopefully.

  10. #10

    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Location
    Livermore, CA
    Posts
    33
    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    I don't study longsword myself, but my brother (medievalist who teaches Hungarian military saber and is (actually)competant with everything from an axe to a grossmesser) has walked me through how differently Fiore is from Dobringer/Lichtenauer in terms of how the systems work. I therefore wholeheartedly endorse GenericUnique's advice to get the German system down first before adding in Italian, or you risk having a hodge-podge of techniques without the systems that made the techniques work.

    Just $0.02.

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