Hapkido your thoughts?

[Ki-ai]

*Rolls Eyes;

BJJ names are fucking annoying.

If your first language is English it might be easier to remember a name like that, than a long name in Japanese.

[duralmaru]

We don't compete in the Hapkido school, the BJJ school does compete though. Stuff likes naga and fx grappling.

[duralmaru]

Thanks Zen yes they mentioned the no airspace yesterday, the whole chest to back thing. Also the push and pull, and also making sure that elbow is directly in front of the neck. I can't watch that video here cause you tube is blocked in the office though. :(

[mrtnira]

In the early 1980's, I found a hopkido book that was published in Korea. The authors and instructors were all Korean military. I have never found another hopkido manual like it. Since then, all the hopkido manuals I have seen look like sports martial arts and civilian self-defense books, not like true military combatives manuals.

All of this for context: That manual was written during the 1970's when the North Koreans were sending commando teams into areas south of the DMZ and behaving in an aggressive manner. During that period several American servicemen were killed in ambushes. This kind of aggressive behavior continued into the 1980's when North Korean agents even tried to assassinate the president of South Korea in Rangoon, Burma, in 1983.

Hopkido can be really ruthless, but I suspect like most popularized "martial arts", the military skills emphasis diminishes with time and the practice changes to sports and basic civilian self-defense techniques. Context tends to shape practice.

[duralmaru]

Very true bro the school I go to is very traditional we attack fast during randori, I can't tell you how many times I have been tagged in the face when I first started. There really isn't a sports aspect to it that I have seen. You are right Hapkido can be very ruthless I don't leave a class without having something hurt, that means its real training and the technique works.

[Petter]

Very true bro the school I go to is very traditional we attack fast during randori, I can't tell you how many times I have been tagged in the face when I first started. There really isn't a sports aspect to it that I have seen. You are right Hapkido can be very ruthless I don't leave a class without having something hurt, that means its real training and the technique works.

No it doesn’t. That’s a stupid thing that people tell themselves in order to use bruises to prop up their flagging self esteem. (I know—I’ve been there.)

Good training includes sparring. In sparring, you’ll sometimes get hurt. Ergo, good training does involve pain and some risk of injury. However, to say that pain or injury implies good training is a converse error (a.k.a. affirming the consequent). Lots of shitty training also results in bruises or even injury as people go unnecessarily hard during co-operative drills. Someone around here made the observation that the more instructors hurt their uke during demos and compliant drills, the shittier the martial art tends to be. I concur.

And, of course, you can take hard hits in a shitty martial art not because the attacks taught are good, but because the defence they teach you is bad. Again, I speak from personal experience.

P implies Q; Q; therefore…we have no idea about P on that basis alone.

[duralmaru]

True you are right, on all accounts. But the sparring we do during randori does help get our techniques down. Most of the injuries I do get nowadays are from the manipulation of the joints and not tapping quick enough when the technique gets done to you.

[Petter]

Most of the injuries I do get nowadays are from the manipulation of the joints and not tapping quick enough when the technique gets done to you.

Really? This sounds like a poor training environment to me—others may have different perspectives. In 2½ years of BJJ (which involves an awful lot of joint manipulation), I have received only one real injury, and it was fairly minor: An armbar cranked too hard and too quickly for me to tap out in time. (As a result, my right arm does not extend to quite the degree my left arm does: Perhaps it never again will.) But that’s one injury in 2½ years, and of course it was done by a raw beginner, a new whitebelt.

People with any degree of skill and experience tend to know (1) how hard and fast it is safe to apply a joint manipulation and (2) to do it slowly enough to give their training partners time to tap out. After all, sparring is training not real fighting; it should be done with aliveness and intensity, but it’s stupid to go balls-to-the-wall and injure each other all the time.

[Permalost]

Really? This sounds like a poor training environment to me—others may have different perspectives. In 2½ years of BJJ (which involves an awful lot of joint manipulation), I have received only one real injury, and it was fairly minor: An armbar cranked too hard and too quickly for me to tap out in time. (As a result, my right arm does not extend to quite the degree my left arm does: Perhaps it never again will.) But that’s one injury in 2½ years, and of course it was done by a raw beginner, a new whitebelt.

People with any degree of skill and experience tend to know (1) how hard and fast it is safe to apply a joint manipulation and (2) to do it slowly enough to give their training partners time to tap out. After all, sparring is training not real fighting; it should be done with aliveness and intensity, but it’s stupid to go balls-to-the-wall and injure each other all the time.

I used to run a chin na class, and one of the first things I would teach was how, when and why to tap (early and often). Second, that joint manipulation should establish control before you apply pain/damage. This is important so that you can do a technique with speed and resistance without injuring your training partner, and it allows you precision since now you can apply force from a good position in a slow, controlled manner even if a technique started fast (there may be pain en route, but not the kind that really damages joints). This seems obvious, but a lot of people like to just grab something and start rapidly applying force, and if you do it this way, you'll end up with the kind of injuries duralmaru described. I would be very unhappy if I trained at a place and was getting lots of injuries from joint manipulation, especially in scripted joint manipulation like hapkido. I agree with your analysis.

[DerAuslander]

I get no respect.