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  1. helmutlvx is offline

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    Posted On:
    8/30/2010 9:28pm


     Style: In transition

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Ishamael View Post
    Ninjutsu: it's Judo, BJJ, striking.
    There must be a few legit ninjas on this board then.

    lol, jk. Get the **** out, ninjer.
  2. It is Fake is offline
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    Posted On:
    8/30/2010 9:39pm

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     Style: xingyi

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Ishamael View Post
    Meh, I have many other things to do, like work and school, to bother trying to prove a style to a bunch of people.
    You know what? I could respect this if you stopped here but, since it is a lie we get a huge posts with abused quotes.



    Listen, it came to this. I was surfing the internet, and ended up finding a question that someone had asked. I just felt like it would be a decent thing to do to try and explain Ninjitsu from the other-side, as I have experienced it.
    So, have many of the posters on this website. Stygens has and is a respected poster.

    When it boils down to it, a video would be down-right peachy. However, as you have all stated when the videos were being brought in, it's Judo, BJJ, striking. I said it before, Ninjitsu takes techniques from other styles and incorporates them into their style. Beyond that, there is not much else that I can do for you. I said what I wanted to say, and I've tried to give a "fairy-tale" martial art some substance for people who would consider.
    Ahhh the typical "I could but I won't on" videos.


    I suggest reading the works of Toshitsugu Takamatsu: The Essence of Ninjitsu, if you are really interested in attempting to understand the style. The most important thing to emphasize, about the style, is it's training beyond simply that of the physical body. Believe it or not; it is your choice.
    I'd hope your arrogance doesn't make you believe no one has read that book.


    I would apologize, but I feel like I might have made a few people's days better, if at the very least because they were waiting for someone like me to come around and start making claims they could argue. xD
    More arrogance. You are not the first, nor will you be the last, to dance around an issue thinking they actually helped a discussion.

    Though the title seems to be patronizing, and someone made a top 10 quotes list for my first post xD, I actually quite enjoyed this!
    Of course you enjoyed it but you have better things to do.......


    As a final courtesy, I will answer Styygen's #5 question, since he and JudoA seemed to be the people who actually came into the discussion with some friendly intent:

    To quote the aforementioned man,
    "More than merely delivering strikes and slashes, and deeper in significance than the simple out-witting of an enemy...The skill of the ninja is the art of
    winning."

    Before people attack the quote, allow me to attempt an explanation in regards to his question. I am not claiming ninjitsu is better than any other style. Ninjitsu is more aimed at every strike having a specific intent, every movement has a purpose. It is not as simple as outwitting an enemy, when a fighter with any other style can also be just as intelligent in a fight. It goes into conditioning of our mind, as well as our bodies. Where it says, "the skill of the ninja is the art of winning", this is my relative point to your "on the streets" vs "in the ring". I understand that it is not a large turnaround for an MMA fighter to take off the limiters, but ninjitsu is an art built around taking ANY means with which to win. This does not mean they will always win, or even come close to winning against those more experienced or better than them, but it does make someone a lot more dangerous. Think about it: This man in front of you (ninja) is willing to gauge, throw dirt, exploit weaknesses, and use the environment all to make sure that he, at the very least, debilitates you enough to get away. When it comes down to it on the street, I would not want to hurt anyone if I could avoid it. If I could put myself in a situation, or him in a state where I could run, and both of us could remain relatively unharmed, I'd take it! That is a win. Am I wrong in that?

    Thank you for your time.
    Ahh a quote then a wild interpretation tailored to fit your argument. Oh, that doesn't answer anything as usual. More arrogance.
  3. Styygens is offline
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    Posted On:
    8/30/2010 9:39pm


     Style: BBT/BJJ/CJKD

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Ishamael View Post
    Meh, I have many other things to do, like work and school, to bother trying to prove a style to a bunch of people. Listen, it came to this. I was surfing the internet, and ended up finding a question that someone had asked. I just felt like it would be a decent thing to do to try and explain Ninjitsu from the other-side, as I have experienced it.
    I am genuinely curious about Ninjutsu "as you have experienced it." That's why I asked question #'s 1 -4, to have a better context about your experience. Please reconsider answering those questions.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ishamael View Post
    I suggest reading the works of Toshitsugu Takamatsu: The Essence of Ninjitsu, if you are really interested in attempting to understand the style. The most important thing to emphasize, about the style, is it's training beyond simply that of the physical body. Believe it or not; it is your choice.
    Thank you. I have all of Hatsumi's books published in English, including Essence of Ninjutsu, in which he quotes Takamatsu's writings. I also have Kacem Zoughari's recently published book, which examines Takamatsu's life very extensively and discusses the historical foundations of ninjutsu.

    I am asking about your connections to these traditions, and trying to get an understanding of the depth of your experience.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ishamael View Post
    As a final courtesy, I will answer Styygen's #5 question, since he and JudoA seemed to be the people who actually came into the discussion with some friendly intent:

    To quote the aforementioned man,
    "More than merely delivering strikes and slashes, and deeper in significance than the simple out-witting of an enemy...The skill of the ninja is the art of
    winning."

    Before people attack the quote, allow me to attempt an explanation in regards to his question. I am not claiming ninjitsu is better than any other style. Ninjitsu is more aimed at every strike having a specific intent, every movement has a purpose. It is not as simple as outwitting an enemy, when a fighter with any other style can also be just as intelligent in a fight. It goes into conditioning of our mind, as well as our bodies. Where it says, "the skill of the ninja is the art of winning", this is my relative point to your "on the streets" vs "in the ring". I understand that it is not a large turnaround for an MMA fighter to take off the limiters, but ninjitsu is an art built around taking ANY means with which to win. This does not mean they will always win, or even come close to winning against those more experienced or better than them, but it does make someone a lot more dangerous. Think about it: This man in front of you (ninja) is willing to gauge, throw dirt, exploit weaknesses, and use the environment all to make sure that he, at the very least, debilitates you enough to get away. When it comes down to it on the street, I would not want to hurt anyone if I could avoid it. If I could put myself in a situation, or him in a state where I could run, and both of us could remain relatively unharmed, I'd take it! That is a win. Am I wrong in that?

    Thank you for your time.
    Thank you for the courtesy.

    Please consider the bolded statements above. You seem to be implying that only the ninjutsu trained person is capable of these choices. Why do you think a competition fighter is unable or incapable of making these choices too?

    How does one condition the mind to choose to win? And can you describe, in your experience, how modern ninjutsu training successfully conditions the mind in this way?

    Also, why do you use the spelling "ninjitsu"?
  4. Psycho Dad is online now
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    Posted On:
    8/30/2010 9:49pm


     Style: BJJ/Boxing

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Meh, I have many other things to do, like work and school, to bother trying to prove a style to a bunch of people.
    Posted at 10:19 PM EST. Suuuuure you were at school or work.
    Quote Originally Posted by Newb1 View Post

    B) I could not beat a Judoka with Aikido. I could only beat an Aikidoka with Aikido. I thought that was understook.
  5. W. Rabbit is offline
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    Posted On:
    8/30/2010 9:54pm

    supporting member
     

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Ishamael View Post
    I suggest reading the works of Toshitsugu Takamatsu: The Essence of Ninjitsu, if you are really interested in attempting to understand the style. The most important thing to emphasize, about the style, is it's training beyond simply that of the physical body. Believe it or not; it is your choice.
    Essence of Ninjutsu was written by Masaaki Hatsumi, not Toshitsugu Takamatsu. I have the book in my lap.

    Page 21, a quote from Takamatsu:

    The enemy who stands against the laws of nature has lost his battle before he begins to fight. The first priority to the ninja was to win without fighting, and that remains the way.
    So why are you still fighting?

  6. helmutlvx is offline

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    Posted On:
    8/30/2010 10:04pm


     Style: In transition

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by W. Rabbit View Post

    Scully, ninjas did exist. But Hatsumi is really an alien who brought his extraterrestrial martial arts to disseminate through humans.


    Okay, where's your proof, Mulder? I have seen so many weird things working with you, but this just takes the cake.


    Come on, Scully. Just look at his face.


    HURR DURR I GOTS SWORDZ.
  7. battlefields is offline
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    Posted On:
    8/30/2010 10:09pm

    forum leader
     Style: BJJ/ MMA/ MT

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Do not sully Scully with scurrilous sundry.

    Irrelevant, carry on.
  8. twisted mind is offline

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    Posted On:
    8/30/2010 10:17pm


     Style: TKD/ TSD

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
  9. twisted mind is offline

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    Posted On:
    8/30/2010 10:28pm


     Style: TKD/ TSD

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by helmutlvx View Post
    lol, u mad?

    This is a messageboard, retard, not a coffee shop.
    You make me laugh. Well it's been a few weeks, but I was wondering when the next ninjer would pop up proclaiming ninjerism to posses teh deadly. Thank you crazy ninjer larper, I absolutely love when people post the crappy ninjer vids.:ninjafigh
  10. pokeroo is offline

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    Posted On:
    8/30/2010 11:37pm


     Style: mma

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by JudoA View Post
    Where do you train then?

    Does your training look like this:

    YouTube- Kashiwa Bujinkan Ninjutsu- Training showreel
    That was actually quite impressive. I was especially impressed by the lack of overweight, out of shape black belts. I bet these guys might be able to win in a fight against someone with no martial arts experience or athleticism on a good day.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ishamael View Post

    Typical lesson: 1) Show up
    2) Respects to Senseis; if not there, begin self-warm-up.
    3) Class begins, class warm-ups, and stretching
    4) 1:00 Extensive Cardio workout. (i.e. Running, rolling,
    break-falling, etc.)
    5) 1:00 Core strength building (i.e. Plank Exercise, Side Plank
    Exercise, Push Ups, V-sits, Squats, Back Bridge, etc.)
    6) :30 technique training
    7) :10 discussion time
    8) Class-end; extra exercise for those that want to keep
    practicing
    So, an hour of cardio, an hour of pilates, a half hour of techniques, ten minutes of discussion, and then maybe some sparring and/or technique after class? I have some questions... Like:

    - When is the mind/body/spiritual stuff trained?
    - Being such a busy person how did you fit 2:40 of your time in a day for ninja training?
    - You really spent less than a fifth of the time learning techniques? That explains why your karate friend puked, especially if he was out of shape or let himself go.
    - How does your teacher justify not being there to lead the class?

    Seriously though, OP, some of your own admissions lead me to believe that you are somewhat disillusioned by ninjutsu. I get the feeling you, like I was, are realizing that you did not get what you bargained for. You didn't get to spar or test what you learned within controlled circumstances against a resisting opponent. By your own admission most people who are moderately good at combat sports could kick your ass.

    Ninjutsu does borrow from other styles, but it doesn't train the techniques in a useful way. You mentioned that you cross train MT because BK's striking is ****. Well, try throwing a Judoka, rolling with a BJJ guy or wrestler. Try out any of your combat/self defense skills against someone who does MMA and then ask yourself who is able to defend themselves better. I'd include something about weapons, but ninja weapon training is mostly historical recreation except for maybe the short stick and knife stuff, and even if you have the skills its still stupid to try and fight someone with weapons.

    One other thing I want to mention. One of your posts went something like this "if it comes to grappling, it will come down to who knows more and trains more." This is true about all ranges. If you don't want to train hard or learn, then don't delude yourself into thinking that learning a few eye gauges will save you.
    Ninjas were originally intelligence gathering spies, and then later they were assassins. It's too bad modern ninjutsu training doesn't focus as much on sneaking up on people and slitting their throats, or blowing poison darts at the enemy after waiting for 20 hours in a bush for just the right moment. Seriously if you get attacked, what's the probability that you will have your shiruken on you, or black eggs, or other crazy weapons that are what made ninjas so interesting in the first place?

    Anyway, it seems that the only thing you have been well trained to do is run away. There is no shame in that, but isn't the main idea behind martial arts to be able to fight if you have to?
    :ninjafigh:ninjafigh:ninjafigh:ninjafigh:ninjafigh

    Oh, and as for avoiding confrontations... do you really need a martial art to teach you how to do that? It should be common sense. For instance, here's a video on how to not get your ass kicked by the police:
    YouTube- Chris Rock - How To Not Get Your Ass Kicked By The Police
    Summary of video: Obey the law, use common sense, stop immediately, stay in the car, be polite, shut the **** up, get a white friend, don't ride with an angry woman.

    If anyone is thinking of taking ninjutsu to learn how to avoid getting into a fight, save your money and memorize my modified set of instructions:
    Obey the law, be polite, avoid rough neighborhoods whenever possible, keep it in your pants until you find a woman who is single, don't befriend people who get into fights, don't be confrontational, don't be an asshole, don't show fear, don't tell people that you do martial arts, mind your own damn business, use common sense.
    Last edited by pokeroo; 8/30/2010 11:39pm at . Reason: Added spaces because I forgot that this message board doesn't keep indentations.
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