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  1. Muerteds is offline

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    Posted On:
    8/26/2010 12:05pm


     Style: Itinerant Wanderer

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Hi TEA,

    You know, my kid comes home with tales of being knocked down, punched, bitten, stuff thrown at, and general abuse by his preschool peers all the time. Sometimes, it's even true. Sounds like yours had an actual roughouse moment :). When you're four, it's hard to tell the difference between roughousing and bullying, even if you're the one doing it.

    What do I teach my son, who's the same age as your daughter? Well, we do "judo" sometimes. That equates to him grabbing me, slinging me down (from a sitting position, which is the only way he can reach me), and getting in side control with his head down. I also make him do some simple somersaults and rolls. Then, I'll reverse the position, and make him shrimp out. Plus, he likes learning the "stick"- the hanbo. We do blocks and pushes. In total, I can get maybe 20 minutes of work out of him before he gets bored and goes off to play again. And that's about the most I could ask for at his age.

    Funny thing is, when we were at the local park, and he was being roughhoused by three other kids his age, he didn't cry or whine, he looked at me with the question look. I shook my head, and he went about getting up to go back to play in the fountain. They couldn't hold him down. Later I asked him about the boys who played too rough with him, and he asked, "Daddy, can I play judo with them?" My answer was, "Yes, but please don't do it on the concrete. You have to play judo with rough boys on the grass." Daddy is proud, but oh-so-glad I didn't have to first-aid some kid's split nugget.
  2. unclejustin is offline

    Featherweight

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    Posted On:
    8/26/2010 12:23pm

    Bullshido Newbie
     Style: JKD,Kickboxing

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Both you (TEA) and Snake seem like you have good sensible ideas. I disagree with teaching to pummel the little delinquent as some of the rest are saying. There is a big difference between a 5 year old pushing kids down and an older person truly assaulting your child. Hitting that kid back with such violence MIGHT stop him from attacking your kid or it might just provoke him to escalate the situation, and usually on some other poor weaker kid. In my experience (I volunteered and served on the board of directors at a local non-profit child care center for several years) the problem with that child is at home. If he is coming in and bullying other kids I promise you he is being bullied at home or worse. Somebody needs to intervene in that family before 5 year old shoving becomes young adult assault.
  3. Vorpal is offline
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    Posted On:
    8/26/2010 12:48pm

    Join us... or die
     Style: BJJ

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    There is only so much you can teach a kid. Some things seem to be hardwired in them. My little guy's "fight or flight" respose was set to "Fight" and then someone broke the handle off. You actually cannot chase him because he will not run from you, he turns to fight every time. I tried to scare him with a big stuffed dinosaur when he was three and was shocked that he ran away (he had never run from anything before) he was back in a second with a toy golf club and started beating the life out of it. My older one, I'd like it if she toughened up a bit but I realize that it's really not in her nature. Hopefully the little guy will be around to look after her.
  4. SBG-ape is offline

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    Posted On:
    8/26/2010 1:30pm


     Style: Jiu-jitsu & HEMA

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    I coach kids Jiu-jitsu at my gym & I was recently asked to do a self defense class for my students. All the kids who attended had at least a week or two of BJJ experience. The class was broken into three sections.

    Part one was abuse prevention & focused on how to seek aid from other adults in the case of abuse.

    Part two was anti-abduction. It started with a discussion of common sense safety ideas & then went into running & evasion & how children can use guard to make it harder for an adult hold/lift/carry them. The kids practiced calling "Stranger! Stranger! 911!" as they did the drills.

    The third part was anti-bully strategies. It's a tricky area because the more training a kid has the less likely they'll be beaten up by their peers & the more careful they need to be to avoid looking like the aggressor. If some kid punches one of my students & the student hip tosses the bully to the ground, takes mount & starts slapping the kids ears, then when the teacher turns around it will be my student who gets in trouble.

    I taught the kids a simple curriculum in which they practiced covering up & crashing to a body lock against punches (while saying "Stop!" & "I don't want to fight!"), from there they took the back, dragged their attacker down to seated back mount & put their hooks in. That immobilizes an untrained kid enough that they can't do any real damage & it doesn't look like my student is smashing them, just hiding behind them. After they're on the back the kids practiced calling things like "teacher, help! This guy is trying to hit me!"
  5. TEA is offline
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    Now iz BBQ Timez?

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    Posted On:
    8/26/2010 1:37pm

    Join us... or die
     Style: TKD, Relson GJJ, Judo

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Thanks, all, for the feedback.

    Muerteds, this is why I didn't make a big deal at the school when I picked her up and they had me sign a form stating what happened (or what they thought had happened) and mainly focused on what they had done to make sure she was OK. The school told me that this boy had pushed her down and she had hit her head on the floor. The teacher later told me that this boy had a habit of doing this and my daughter said that this was not the first time that he'd tried to hurt her.

    My daughter later told me that he hadn't pushed her but had kicked her and that she had bumped her head on the bookshelves. After more inquiry, the clearest version of events from her telling it was that he was on his back and caught her with and up kick. I could not get her to tell me why he was on his back, which leads me to believe that a) she has no clue why he was on his back and was just caught by surprise, or b) she had pushed him down (perhaps in response to an attempt to push her down???) and he was retaliating.

    The reason I don't want to start off with teaching her striking is because I want to make sure she isn't going to go batshit on some kid and over escalate. Most of the time, she seems to have inherited her Mom's even disposition, but occasionally she seems to have gotten some of my temper. I want to focus first on how not to get pushed down, punched or kicked. How to fall if she is tripped or pushed down, and how to get back up. Once I'm sure that she's not going to go batshit on someone and get in trouble herself, then I'll start teaching her striking. Or, at least start teaching her striking more systematically than the ad hoc approach I've taken so far.

    Gwyneth at 2 1/2:
    http://www.youtube.com/Pendraeg#p/u/3/X5LN_Egtz8E

    and at 3
    http://www.youtube.com/Pendraeg#p/u/16/f-6I_HdcpGU
    Mushi mo atsui hodo
    Mushiatsui

    Originally Posted by chuey
    ...Well **** if that isn't the most anti-Mr. Miyagi **** I have heard in ages.

    Two wrongs don't make a right, but
    Three rights make a left.
  6. Snake Plissken is offline
    Snake Plissken's Avatar

    When I Get Back

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    Posted On:
    8/26/2010 1:51pm

    supporting member
     

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by TEA View Post
    I want to focus first on how not to get pushed down, punched or kicked.
    is this the request of the Aikido misdirection you referred to? The way to actively protect without the appearance of escalating the potential for violence?

    How to fall if she is tripped or pushed down, and how to get back up.
    breakfalls and monkey rolls!
    does your daughter do any gymnastics or dance or are you or the missus interested in that? Does she play any sports or what are her other activities or interests, where we might be able to harness her existing talents?

    Once I'm sure that she's not going to go batshit on someone and get in trouble herself, then I'll start teaching her striking. Or, at least start teaching her striking more systematically than the ad hoc approach I've taken so far.
    yeah....as parents, when you have a kid in a decent school and decent environment, you don't want to **** things up. The balled fist tends to be the escalator, like you said.
  7. WhiteShark is offline
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    1% Shark is better than you.

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    Posted On:
    8/26/2010 3:41pm

    supporting memberforum leaderstaff
     Style: BJJ/Shidokan

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Judo Judo Judo
  8. TEA is offline
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    Now iz BBQ Timez?

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    Posted On:
    8/26/2010 6:52pm

    Join us... or die
     Style: TKD, Relson GJJ, Judo

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by WhiteShark View Post
    Judo Judo Judo
    If I could find Judo around here I'd be taking Judo. As it is, tonight is the last night that the Karate/MMA school that I found at one of the local gyms will be operating. After that, the only thing in town is a Kung Fu school.
    Mushi mo atsui hodo
    Mushiatsui

    Originally Posted by chuey
    ...Well **** if that isn't the most anti-Mr. Miyagi **** I have heard in ages.

    Two wrongs don't make a right, but
    Three rights make a left.
  9. DKJr is online now
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    Fasten your seat belts, and prepare for lift off

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    Posted On:
    8/26/2010 7:03pm

    supporting member
     Style: Combat Cuddling

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Teach easy trips and pins, using the underhook/bridge to get someone off you. That should be enough till highschool, then she can do what I did date the cpt of the football team...
  10. hungryjoe is offline
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    Light Heavyweight

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    Posted On:
    8/26/2010 8:36pm

    supporting member
     Style: judo hiatus

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Except Alex, you guys are no fun.

    Seriously, I should not have made light of the situation and my comments about hitting the kid were directly opposed to the lessons I used to teach in Safe Kids. Fighting was last resort.

    Good luck TEA. Now that the school is aware of the problem and knows that you're an involved parent, hopefully there will be no more.

    If not, teach her to stab the little bastard with a crayon. It has to be one of the big ones though. The little ones won't hold a point.
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