big picture bjj
So boxing has boxers vs brawlers vs punchers, where physical and mental attributes determine a "best" style for a guy.
What are the basic types of ground games?
I've heard strength lends itself to slow, methodical positional gameplay, while cardio/agility lends itself to loose, slippery movement based games.
How else have yall seen general bjj strategies broken down?
What do you think constitutes an individual's individual style?
Last edited by atom; 8/23/2010 4:11pm at .
I'm not sure that physical attributes dictate your grappling game as much as mental attitude does. I train with guys that have all different kinds of games that don't break down along physical lines. I'd say the only major exception to this is that lanky guys always get triangles.
The wrestlers mostly have a heavy top side game but most of them say thats just from years of wrestling and thinking back down is bad. A couple of our guys have vicious guard games and are actually college level wrestlers.
The key is to figure out how you think about grappling and tailor your game to exploit that mental strength. I think it is doubly important if you plan to grapple for the rest of your life because your physical attributes will fail before the way your mind is structured changes.
I've got it down to guard players, top surfers and anacondas.
So what do you see as the different mental attitudes people bring to the game?
Omega, I see it. I like that characterization.
As thought-dump rather than expert opinion (as unlike some other posters here, I am not an expert):
- Lanky people sometimes seem to be made entirely out of triangles. Tall, long-limbed people and people with great flexibility often seem to play a lot of guard because there’s so much that becomes easier, or is only possible, if you either have long limbs to allow a margin of error, or are very flexible.
- As someone who’s shorter, stockier, and has thick legs, a lot of that stuff is disproportionately difficult. If I want to sink a triangle, I have to cut the angle almost perfectly—which I don’t because I suck at triangles, and I suck all the more at triangles because, since they’re hard with my build, practicing them in sparring feels futile. Against some people not much heavier than myself I can’t close my guard at all; my legs are too short. So, I try to play a crushing top game not because I am good at it but because I am bad at the bottom game, and because my shortish legs and poor hip flexibility don’t matter a damn when I’m applying pressure in side control.
- When there’s size disparity I generally seem to see bigger people play more top games; maybe because their size advantage lets them get to the top more easily, maybe because smaller people, being lighter, more mobile, often more agile, are better suited for guard; maybe some of each; maybe I’m just wrong but I’ll say it anyway so it can be discussed.
I am a lanky and relatively light guy (6'2, 170 lbs) and I find that playing top game against significantly larger opponents is generally more successful than trying to play guard. Against big dudes who are beginners, I can generally defend my guard with relative ease, but a 220 lb person who is of equal or greater skill will most likely smash me.
Originally Posted by Petter
For the most part, I find that the top game gives me enough mobility to set a pace they can't keep up with. My biggest sticking point is getting stuck somewhere and slowly being flattened out thereafter, which is why I try to stay on top as much as possible against people with significant weight advantages.
The above is, of course, only true in settings where competition is appropriate. In general, being a guard player for the most part, I'll do my best to subject just about anyone to my guard in order to improve it.
This is really a great way to think about it.
Originally Posted by WhiteShark
For my first two years, I did everything I could to stay on top. I was a big, strong guy (225lbs), and I had success laying on top of people and peeling arms off. Not a lot of skill there. Then I realized there were these guys in colored belts that were 80 pounds lighter than me choking the **** out of me.
The last two plus years I've played almost nothing but my bottom game...and I'm loving it. It has just become incredibly fun to me. Much more rewarding when I actually make something work.
If I understand, the kind of guy that sticks to you like a booger you can't flick and deliberately advances position. Like Jake shields.
Originally Posted by LiamSP
I play a lot of positions this way. I tend to surf once I get mount and look for the back and then go anaconda again.
Last edited by atom; 8/23/2010 9:46pm at .
It's mentality definitely. Physical attribute and build will shape your game , but they shouldn't be a crutch. Play to your strengths, don't rely on them. There's a stocky, strong, easy going purple belt I train with who never in his life will play De La Riva guard. Why? It's not for him, his mind set is different and his body type isn't conducive to it.. I'm an ADD outgoing high pace kinda guy. My Jiu Jitsu plays to dynamic guards/sweeps, lots of hip movement to pass/play guard, and a high pace.
Way I see it is you're a dynamic guard player/Passer or a Controlling guard player/passer.
Last edited by DKJr; 8/23/2010 10:12pm at .
Reason: Spelling grammar, I'm also on meds...