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  1. Uncle Skippy is offline

    See my tongue. SEE IT!

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    Posted On:
    8/23/2010 5:21pm

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      Style: BJJ, MT, TKD

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Snippet from his Facebook page (avoiding posting full URL/screenshot due to family information which is not related to this investigation).



    "Black Rooster BJJ" doesn't exist in search results. Maybe a temporary placeholder name?

    He was in Arizona and presumably would have been training with "Donde" back in 1992.

    I'm wondering who was teaching BJJ back then in Mesa. Anybody have any contacts in Arizona with somebody who would have been around back then?
  2. It is Fake is offline
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    Posted On:
    8/23/2010 5:44pm

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    Quote Originally Posted by Uncle Skippy View Post

    I'm wondering who was teaching BJJ back then in Mesa. Anybody have any contacts in Arizona with somebody who would have been around back then?
    Actively? No one. I checked out schools all over the valley and there were no GJJ schools actively advertised in Mesa, AZ in 1992. That's how I ended up in my McDojo. After the first UFC, a few started popping up around 94 IIRC? One of the first or second opened just down the street from my old school. I'm not saying there weren't any just no one in the Yellow pages and I lived in Mesa.

    There was one in the Gilbert/Chandler area but, it was in a Karate studio IIRC. I watched a small class roll with a woman girl rolling. That's why I remember those two schools.
  3. Uncle Skippy is offline

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    Posted On:
    8/23/2010 6:03pm

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    Quote Originally Posted by It is Fake View Post
    Actively? No one. I checked out schools all over the valley and there were no GJJ schools actively advertised in Mesa, AZ in 1992. That's how I ended up in my McDojo. After the first UFC, a few started popping up around 94 IIRC? One of the first or second opened just down the street from my old school. I'm not saying there weren't any just no one in the Yellow pages and I lived in Mesa.

    There was one in the Gilbert/Chandler area but, it was in a Karate studio IIRC. I watched a small class roll with a woman girl rolling. That's why I remember those two schools.
    I figured it would be pretty sparse back then in the major cities (LA for example), so Mesa would have been almost a ghost town in regards to BJJ instruction. I'm sure the entire martial arts community in the area would be small enough for people to know each other even between the various arts.

    The email exchange between the OP and Don was posted on the UG but I'm hoping the OP will email me the correspondence so I can archive it on Google Docs and post it here. I sent the OP a PM.

    In the exchange, it said that "Donde Vlarble" only taught Don and his family. That is why he wouldn't be well-known to even people in the area.
  4. It is Fake is offline
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    Posted On:
    8/23/2010 6:09pm

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    Quote Originally Posted by Uncle Skippy View Post
    I figured it would be pretty sparse back then in the major cities (LA for example), so Mesa would have been almost a ghost town in regards to BJJ instruction. I'm sure the entire martial arts community in the area would be small enough for people to know each other even between the various arts.
    During the late eighties early 90's yes, they would no each other. I basically drove all over the Phoenix metro area. Hell, my first school was in Glendale a 45 minute drive from Mesa.


    In the exchange, it said that "Donde Vlarble" only taught Don and his family. That is why he wouldn't be well-known to even people in the area.
    Funny, is it just me or does "Donde" remind anyone of the Spanish word?

    Edit:
    http://groups.google.gg/group/alt.uf...c6ad8d74bde7a1

    Looks like someone was asking this over a year ago.

    I sent you an email Don, not sure you got it, to summerize...
    Do you know of a BJJ blackbelt named Donde Vlarble in tucson az?
    Just trying to check a guys credentials, he says he got a black from
    Donde If you know if donde exists or not and could email me the info
    itd be appreciated.
    In Tuscon now?

    Edit:

    Man here is the response:
    http://newsgroups.derkeiler.com/Arch.../msg00056.html

    Morbius <billamaho...@xxxxxxxxx> wrote on Fri, 2 Jan 2009 :

    I sent you an email Don, not sure you got it, to summerize...


    "Morbius"? What the hell is that?

    Having a hard time keeping track of all of your names...

    Anyway, yes I got your (two) emails, and I replied (by email).
    Did you not get my reply?

    Do you know of a BJJ blackbelt named Donde Vlarble in tucson az? Just
    trying to check a guys credentials, he says he got a black from Donde If
    you know if donde exists or not and could email me the info itd be
    appreciated.


    Short answer: never heard of either of the two guys you've mentioned.
    Most likely explanation: either just a complete lie, or else a black belt
    in some different (e.g. Japanese) style of "jujitsu", rather than Brazilian
    Jiu-Jitsu.
    Last edited by It is Fake; 8/23/2010 6:20pm at .
  5. Uncle Skippy is offline

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    Posted On:
    8/23/2010 6:43pm

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    Quote Originally Posted by It is Fake View Post
    Looks like someone was asking this over a year ago.
    I sent an email to "Morbius" about an hour and a half ago to see why he was looking up info on "Donde". I haven't heard back yet but will post the response.
  6. Pandinha is offline

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    Posted On:
    8/23/2010 7:01pm

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    I'm supposed to be in RI in the next few weeks. Might have to drop in.
    Quote Originally Posted by Sifu Rudy Abel
    "Just what makes a pure grappler think he can survive with an experienced striker. Especially if that striker isn't following any particular rule set and is well aware of what the grapplers strategies are".
  7. Uncle Skippy is offline

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    Posted On:
    8/23/2010 7:03pm

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    I have received the original email exchange from BJJinRI (Thanks BJJinRI!). Here is the conversation with BJJinRI's name removed and paragraphs added to Don's replies for readability.

    Quote Originally Posted by BJJinRI
    I had e-mailed Sensei Jesse just last night curious about the BJJ program at the school. He told me you are currently injured, I wish you a healthy recovery!

    As a long time fan of BJJ and no gi grappling I was just curious about your background. How long have you been involved in BJJ, what level are you and who have you trained/been belted under?

    Thanks and good health!

    (BJJinRI)


    Quote Originally Posted by Don Perkins
    Hello (BJJinRI),

    I just got your E-mail message, I have trained in Bjj for 34 yrs.,


    I started at the age of 5, I trained under Donde Vlarble , out of Tucson Az, that is where I grew up, I am a BB 2 stripe ,


    you can Email me @ (redacted), this is my work E-mail, I would love to meet you and possibly train with you, at any rate class should start back next week.


    Have a wonderful weekend,
    Quote Originally Posted by BJJinRI
    I apologize for sending to your work e-mail, it's the one Sensei Jessie passed along to me.

    I'm impressed with the amount of years put in! Did you study all the way to black belt under Vlarble or did you head up this way at some point in your bb journey? Is he from a Machado or Gracie lineage?

    Once I sort schooling out for the semester in early September I'll be looking back into BJJ. Are there open mat nights at Villari's?

    Thanks,
    (BJJinRI)
    Quote Originally Posted by Don Perkins
    (BJJinRI), how ae you man? All is well here,

    Vlarble trained under a Gracie, he is from Brazil, as is my father, he was more like an uncle to us boys growing up, I got my Black Belt from him and studied under none other, The guy has a different approach to the game, as you will see when You come in to train with me,


    we have about 80 take downs and 2 to 3 counters to each. I like to get the guys going standing up because in real life, that is the way it is then we transition to the ground... Tons of combonations, and if I am correct I think you are a Blue belt right? So you will have about 40 to 50 sweeps and escapes .And of course your basic locks and chokes from white to blue.


    I would like to get you right in and see where you are at as soon as possible, I will be back this friday coming up from 630pm to 930pm , you could leave at any time, the place is small but it is what it is for the time being, if at all possible bring your kimono and belt , the first half hour is all cardio and drills, then instruction, then we lightly roll, almost like flow drills........


    Our open mat is called a Free roll. Can not wait to see ya man Roll easy
    Quote Originally Posted by BJJinRI
    I apologize if I come across as offensive, as I have no other way of presenting this; but as a former student of Villari's as well as a long time fan and practitioner of Brazilian Jiu Jitsu, I feel compelled to ask some things.

    Brazilian Jiu Jitsu first started appearing in the United States in the 80s on the west coast. (http://thefightworkspodcast.com/2010...rorion-gracie/) You say you've been studying it for 34 years, which would mean you were doing so in the mid 70s. How is this?

    There is no Donde Vlarble listed in any of the Gracie lineage. BJJ is a very young art and lineage is easily traceable. There were VERY few black belts in the 70s and prior especially. On top of that a quick search shows no results for a person of this name save for someone on a message board questioning a person claiming to have a belt from this person and the response saying no Donde Vlarble exists. (http://newsgroups.derkeiler.com/Arch.../msg00056.html)

    Your profile on the website says that you were nationally ranked. I'm not sure if this is speaking about MMA or BJJ but I do know your name isn't listed in any BJJ resource as a black belt or in any competition records.

    If there is perfect explaination for all of this I genuinely apologize for any insults, but I just really would like to see the sport remain pure and not get watered down like karate and other traditional martial arts did during the boom of the 70s-80s.
    Quote Originally Posted by Don Perkins
    I am sorry to say to you that I owe no "perfect explanation" in fact my BJJ speaks for itself,

    as far as training in the 70's you are right, I trained in the mid 70's, I started bjj at the age of 4 and a half, when BJJ was not known to Americans.


    If you look a little deeper you will realize that Donde taught a mixture of bjj and Luta Livre, and this is what I tell my students..... Sorry you can't find any history, sometimes it is better that way for many reasons, although there was one article about Donde and Myself, and my record. An old student of mine found it...


    I looked at your website and fowarded it to my family members and they thought it was a joke.... The question they asked was... Did they grow up with us and does every Bjj practitioner who trained under the gracie system keep ties?


    well let me put it to you this way, I myself broke free for several reasons which I will not discuss with you.. You said you are a long time Bjj fan right? what since UFC 1? Which I doubt because that would have been in the 90's, and there was a select few who even knew about the art then...


    For what it is worth I have taken my Bjj to the extreme, You should try it before questioning my credentials... I have had problems in the past with other instructors stealing my tactics, but never felt so insulted in my life!!!!


    So here is what we do, either you train with me with a clear head or you do not.


    The choice is your's..


    Sincerely,

    Insulted
    Quote Originally Posted by BJJinRI
    What website are you referring to? I do not have one. Did you find another BJJ website based on my Facebook profile? The Two Swords Website? The Two Swords instructor has trained under Rickson Gracie, Pedro Sauer and Tim Burrill. All of whom are massively respected, and all of whom I'm sure you're aware of. The school is the only affiliate under Abmar Barbosa who is currently a world class grappler competing at the highest of levels. What is a joke about this?

    No, I was not a fan of Brazilian Jiu Jitsu since UFC 1, because I was only ten at the time and was unaware of the UFC and BJJ. It was in the late 90s when I first became aware of MMA and BJJ, and then about 7-8 years ago when I became a fan of grappling specifically.

    You certainly don't owe me an explanation. Like I said, I'm a fan who wants BJJ to stay pure. I'm sure you can understand the idea of that. Even with your past being 100% credible, certainly you could see why it might raise my suspicion that your teacher isn't listed amongst all the others who received their belts from the Gracies, let alone there being any trace of his school or name at all. Not everyone keeps ties with their instructors sure, but that doesn't mean there would be no record of them at all.

    I can't even find a record of any person existing with his last name at all, ever. The name Donde is a Spanish/Portuguese word that means "where," so I find it an interesting choice as well.

    I'm genuinely sorry that I've come across as insulting, perhaps the way I've gone about my inquiry is unfair, but you must certainly understand the root of my curiosity? I've tried to be fair in that I discussed this directly with you, and did not simply throw around accusations to others. I will hold my opinion as such as I'd much prefer an open dialogue between you and I.
    Quote Originally Posted by Don Perkins
    Sorry to say buddy, but I have not even thought to look at your facebook profile, and again, my instructor came from Brazil with my father,he taught my brothers and myself Bjj along with my father.. No schools or dojo's involved in fact there were no other students involved because it is what my father wanted for us boys........

    Hey enough about this I do not think that I can go on with the conversation... Thanks for the insults and good luck with your training
    Quote Originally Posted by BJJinRI
    Dude, your lies are transparent. Of course you looked me up, because I never said that I'd ever studied BJJ before, let alone what belt I was and you knew. You also said you "looked at my webpage."

    Either you didn't study BJJ before or you did and you're inflating your history. One place on the website says you're second degree, another said you're third. It says you have a 263-0 professional BJJ record. That statistic is insane and there is no professional BJJ.

    You're a fake. You know it and I do. You can keep teaching the students if you want, but just remember every time you collect money from people you're swindling that somebody knows you're doing it.
    Quote Originally Posted by Don Perkins
    I am sorry you feel that way, now, where do I begin,

    I Do not get paid to teach Bjj with The dojo since I have started over two yrs. ago . And what website are you looking at because I have made sure that I can not be found..


    Third degree, I have never laid claims to that, I know my rank, and as far as my record, I am pretty impressed you found that because most people can't ..


    With that being said why don't you do a little more research before you call a higher rank a fake, as far as looking you up goes, you will be amazed at who I know.... I am not new to this little fellow.


    At any rate Mr. (BJJinRI) no need to continue. God bless ....
    Quote Originally Posted by BJJinRI
    The legitimate BJJ community has been informed. They're looking into it more comprehensively.
    Last edited by Uncle Skippy; 8/23/2010 7:07pm at . Reason: Color coding.
  8. It is Fake is offline
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    Posted On:
    8/23/2010 7:13pm

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    I always enjoy the "I Studied under A <insert last name>." So, later, it can become oh not those "Gracie's and their GJJ" the other Gracie. Yes, I could be wrong but, it is a huge red flag for me.
  9. Vorpal is offline
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    Posted On:
    8/23/2010 7:32pm

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    Is there any record of any students from this school going to any comps?
  10. BJJinRI is offline

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    Posted On:
    8/23/2010 10:25pm

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    Quote Originally Posted by Vorpal View Post
    Is there any record of any students from this school going to any comps?
    As far as I can tell he hasn't been doing it very long. Plus, he only has class one day a week, so I'd imagine their progress would be slow. Even if they were learning real BJJ.
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