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  1. bemused is offline
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    Posted On:
    9/13/2011 4:53pm


     Style: JSW

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Every COL student who leaves represents a loss of investment and revenue to Kimmie, and without her COL students she wouldn't have Lighthouse, her only cash cow, yet when her mistreatment of a student comes back to bite her in the butt, she doesn't learn.

    All the yelling, humiliation, overcharging, overworking, underpayment, surveillance, and guilt-tripping isn't just unethical, in the long run it's counterproductive. She might not realize it, but she creates more fear than respect. When students lose their fear, they leave.

    Groups that treat their members well have turnover too, but they don't end up with more disgusted former members than current members and a collection of appalled bystanders to boot.
  2. Permalost is online now
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    pro nonsense self defense

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    Posted On:
    9/13/2011 5:05pm

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     Style: FMA, dumbek, Indian clubs

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    I've noticed that the people who post on this thread don't post anywhere else on Bullshido even though the posters have been around for years, and it got me wondering if these cultish martial arts groups attract people who like small, secluded groups for whatever reason. An insular nature allows people like TYK to operate a martial arts school that's batshit insane but also off the radar of the larger martial arts community, that talks to each other across schools and styles. I always kinda figured that these pockets existed because of a charismatic leader that kept people from talking, but I'm wondering if it has to do with the type of personality of the people that stick around too. You guys have been here for years but only talk amongst yourselves about some crazy bitch from back in the day. Of course, its also possible that the whole experience soured you guys on the martial arts entirely so you're not really interested in them anymore.

    I hope I don't sound disrespectful, but this thread is kind of a weird anomaly on Bullshido and I'm trying to figure it out.
  3. Kathy Kim is offline

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    Posted On:
    9/13/2011 5:56pm

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     Style: Jung SuWOn

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Permalost View Post
    I've noticed that the people who post on this thread don't post anywhere else on Bullshido even though the posters have been around for years, and it got me wondering if these cultish martial arts groups attract people who like small, secluded groups for whatever reason. An insular nature allows people like TYK to operate a martial arts school that's batshit insane but also off the radar of the larger martial arts community, that talks to each other across schools and styles. I always kinda figured that these pockets existed because of a charismatic leader that kept people from talking, but I'm wondering if it has to do with the type of personality of the people that stick around too. You guys have been here for years but only talk amongst yourselves about some crazy bitch from back in the day. Of course, its also possible that the whole experience soured you guys on the martial arts entirely so you're not really interested in them anymore.

    I hope I don't sound disrespectful, but this thread is kind of a weird anomaly on Bullshido and I'm trying to figure it out.

    We post on a martial arts site because she teaches a martial arts school. That is how we got drawn into her cult. The reason we post here is to let other beware of what they may be getting themselves into. If they want to train, great, but to also know who and what she is and most important, to go in with the knowledge that we didn't have, Many people's lives were hurt because of her. She isn't who she says she is. I'm sure other's could explain it better, especially bemused, but this is how I explain it
    The real deal. No muss, no fuss, just truth
  4. Failed Student is offline
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    Posted On:
    9/13/2011 7:22pm


     Style: My Own Do

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    Permalost:
    I was interested in training in the martial arts many long years ago, primarily for the purpose of learning self-defense. Having had no prior experience nor knowledge of the arts, I walked into my first dojang totally clueless, and accepted without much questioning the nonsense that was dished out, got sucked into stuff that was totally not martial arts but rather a business venture whose sole purpose was to enrich the "master" , to the detriment of the life goals and futures of the followers. I subsequently trained elsewhere, but there has always been a bitter taste in my mouth from the first traumatic experience that for me lasted three years. Perhaps if I had started martial arts training in an ethical dojang, my perspective would be a bit different now. I know there are good schools around, but I guess it's the few rotten ones that make people look askance at martial arts. Certainly it is a good discipline, especially for kids but also adults.
  5. bemused is offline
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    Posted On:
    9/13/2011 8:49pm


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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Hi Permalost, and welcome to the discussion.

    I hope you won't be offended when I say you're asking the wrong question. People who join cults aren't any different from people who join reputable churches, gyms, support groups, martial arts schools, etc. And if you look around Bullshido you will find other threads on other martial arts cults, such as Chung Moo Doe. This type of thread may be uncommon, but it's not unique.

    The right question to ask is how and why cults recruit people. They use deception, a classic bait and switch. They advertise the lifestyle in glowing terms and don't tell you how they intend to control your entire life until you are emotionally committed and it's hard to back out. They target people who are smart, hard-working, and idealistic, because these people produce more than they consume. They target these people at vulnerable times in their lives when they are depressed or in transition (divorce, bereavement, relocation, graduation, etc.), because they are more receptive to emotional appeals.

    I enjoyed the martial arts training despite the bat-**** craziness and may take it up again in the future. Right now though, I'm too busy with my music and with advocacy for victims of family abuse and cults (the psychology is the same except for peer pressure in the latter).

    One of the reasons we post on Bullshido is because we've tried other sites, and those sites have caved when threatened with legal action. Bullshido has the balls to stand up to martial arts cults.
  6. Kathy Kim is offline

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    Posted On:
    9/13/2011 9:33pm

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     Style: Jung SuWOn

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by bemused View Post
    Hi Permalost, and welcome to the discussion.

    I hope you won't be offended when I say you're asking the wrong question. People who join cults aren't any different from people who join reputable churches, gyms, support groups, martial arts schools, etc. And if you look around Bullshido you will find other threads on other martial arts cults, such as Chung Moo Doe. This type of thread may be uncommon, but it's not unique.

    The right question to ask is how and why cults recruit people. They use deception, a classic bait and switch. They advertise the lifestyle in glowing terms and don't tell you how they intend to control your entire life until you are emotionally committed and it's hard to back out. They target people who are smart, hard-working, and idealistic, because these people produce more than they consume. They target these people at vulnerable times in their lives when they are depressed or in transition (divorce, bereavement, relocation, graduation, etc.), because they are more receptive to emotional appeals.

    I enjoyed the martial arts training despite the bat-**** craziness and may take it up again in the future. Right now though, I'm too busy with my music and with advocacy for victims of family abuse and cults (the psychology is the same except for peer pressure in the latter).

    One of the reasons we post on Bullshido is because we've tried other sites, and those sites have caved when threatened with legal action. Bullshido has the balls to stand up to martial arts cults.
    Like I said Bemused can tell it in a nutshell. So can Failed Student. If you have any questions, ask away.
    The real deal. No muss, no fuss, just truth
  7. Failed Student is offline
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    Posted On:
    9/14/2011 7:09am


     Style: My Own Do

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    I just have a few more comments:
    Jung Suwon is as was stated - bait and switch.
    It is not a martial arts school in the traditional sense. Yes, they teach the skills and all, but they never enter into tournaments, which is at least here in Vermont, the norm. TYK doesn't want her students to see how other schools operate, how their students have freedoms not permitted in her school. She shelters them from the outside world as much as possible. That too is why she lures them in to working for Lighthouse and gets them to live together, once again minimizing exposure to reality.
    So yes, I was in this group "back in the day", but her abuse continues unabated. That is why I continue to post.
  8. Failed Student is offline
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    Posted On:
    9/14/2011 7:14am


     Style: My Own Do

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    One more thing Permalost - I did actually post in another thread about another questionable master - Philip Porter.
    I also have had, outside of Bullshido, been in email conversation with a former high ranking instructor of Chung Moo Do. Like TYK, John Kim is out to become rich at the expense of others.
  9. Failed Student is offline
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    Posted On:
    9/19/2011 6:47pm


     Style: My Own Do

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    If I don't see an update to the Jung Suwon website soon, I will have to assume the witch is dead.
  10. Kathy Kim is offline

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    Posted On:
    9/20/2011 2:52am

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     Style: Jung SuWOn

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Maybe they are just busy putting out other fire's? Or busy getting her another title.......she must be tired of having just the few that she has bought.
    The real deal. No muss, no fuss, just truth

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