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  1. Res Judicata is offline

    Senior Member

    Join Date
    Sep 2006
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    1,633

    Posted On:
    8/18/2010 10:03am


     Style: Judo & BJJ

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    I agree with the basic point of get strong and then get big (and you tend to get bigger as you get stronger). A 1.5x bw bench, 2x bw squat and 2.5 btw DL is a little ambitious, isn't it though? Those are decent strength athlete numbers. Depending on a number of factors (fiber makeup, nervous system efficiency, et.c), they aren't even necessarily achievable by everyone and can take years to achieve even if they are.

    If I were the OP and wanted to work on mass and asthetics, I'd workout like a bodybuilder -- 3 to 5 day split, moderately high volume, go for time under tension, etc. Here's a dirty secret: if you haven't done this kind of work in a while, and you're not an advanced trainee, it almost doesn't matter which program you do for a while, as long as you pick a decent one and keep your calories up.

    (I'm actually looking forward to doing some hypertrophy work in the future, if I can ever keep my damn neck and shoulder from going into spasm; instead I'm dieting and feeling grumpy about it).

    You can do a lot worse than reading elitefts and t-nation, too. I've learned a ton reading those guys over the years.

    Last piece of advice: bust your ass in the gym.
    Last edited by Res Judicata; 8/18/2010 10:12am at .
  2. Franco is offline

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    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Location
    England
    Posts
    240

    Posted On:
    8/18/2010 11:45am


     Style: Weightlifting

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Emevas View Post
    I would start by reading Stuart McRobert's "Brawn" to get a realistic idea of bodybuilding training, and from there consider Super Squats just for an understanding of the value of the rest pause principle. After that, you could consider Practical Programming for Starting Strength just to understand the biological processess that are happening during training (Or Super Training by Mel Siff if you're REALLY into the hard science), and then you'd just want to read every article you could on the subject from t-muscle and elitefts, because at this point you should know enough to separate the supplement hype from the real stuff.

    20 rep squats and Dogg Crapp are prime examples of mass gaining programs, but honestly, you want a decent strength foundation before you try to move on there. Something like a 300lb bench, 400lb squat and 500lb deadlift for a 200lb, 5'9 athlete, as the high reps paired with the short rest periods is really going to cut into your working set weights, and it's hard to build muscle using 135lbs.

    Was going to give 20reps squats ago pretty soon actually thanks for the extra info, my stats currently are 200lbs, 5"10
    Squat-286lbs
    Bench-198lbs
    Deadlift-231lbs

    Thats 5x5 not my 1 rep max
  3. Emevas is offline
    Emevas's Avatar

    Dysfunctionally Strong

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    Dec 2003
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    Minot AFB, ND
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    Posted On:
    8/18/2010 2:05pm

    supporting member
     Style: Boxing/Wrestling

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Res Judicata View Post
    I agree with the basic point of get strong and then get big (and you tend to get bigger as you get stronger). A 1.5x bw bench, 2x bw squat and 2.5 btw DL is a little ambitious, isn't it though?

    Not for the 5'9, 200lb athlete I spoke of. It would scale differently depending on bodyweight, not as a direct translation.

    It should only take a few years of dedicated training, during which time one will get much bigger.

    This was Stuart McRobert's suggestion in Brawn, and I personally lived up to it and found it to be true.
    "Emevas,
    You're a scrapper, I like that."-Ronin69
  4. Res Judicata is offline

    Senior Member

    Join Date
    Sep 2006
    Posts
    1,633

    Posted On:
    8/18/2010 2:35pm


     Style: Judo & BJJ

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    They're still ambitious for a natural recreational athlete (juice monkeys, otoh ...). According these standards, each of those numbers would put someone around between "advanced" and "elite" for each of those lifts in the 198 or 220 lb class. http://www.exrx.net/Testing/WeightLi...hStandards.htm They're defined this way:

    Advanced

    An individual with multi-year training experience with definite goals in the higher levels of competitive athletics.

    Elite

    Refers specifically to athletes competing in strength sports. Less than 1% of the weight training population will attain this level.

    In powerlifting terms, that's a 1200 lb total, putting someone around Class 1 for 198/220 lb raw lifters in this drug-free federation. http://www.criticalbench.com/powerli...ifications.htm

    That's strong.
  5. Emevas is offline
    Emevas's Avatar

    Dysfunctionally Strong

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    Minot AFB, ND
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    6,788

    Posted On:
    8/18/2010 3:05pm

    supporting member
     Style: Boxing/Wrestling

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Those standards are taken from football players, who though strong, put more of their time training football than lifting. If you only focus on the task of lifting, those numbers simply don't reflect accurately.

    I agree, it's a lot for a recreational trainee. I'm not talking about a recreational trainee, I'm talking about a bodybuilding trainee, as that's what Dogg Crapp is designed for.
    "Emevas,
    You're a scrapper, I like that."-Ronin69
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