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  1. #1
    TEA's Avatar
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    Difference between a throw, "hard" takedown, and a slam?

    From the receiving end, this felt like a slam, but since slams were illegal at this tournament and the ref gave him points for the takedown, I was wondering what the difference is from a technical perspective.

    http://www.bullshido.net/forums/vbtu...beid=396#watch
    Mushi mo atsui hodo
    Mushiatsui

    Originally Posted by chuey
    ...Well **** if that isn't the most anti-Mr. Miyagi **** I have heard in ages.

    Two wrongs don't make a right, but
    Three rights make a left.

  2. #2
    judoka_uk's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TEA View Post
    From the receiving end, this felt like a slam, but since slams were illegal at this tournament and the ref gave him points for the takedown, I was wondering what the difference is from a technical perspective.

    http://www.bullshido.net/forums/vbtu...beid=396#watch
    The terms 'slam', 'takedown' and 'throw' have no objective meaning as far as I'm concerned or aware. So whatever a particular ruleset decides to describe or classify as a 'slam', 'takedown' or 'throw' will be for purely subjective reasons. The technique executed on you certainly had a decent amplitude and you seemed to hit the mat relatively hard, but what elements of it would someone be able to point to that would differentiate it from an Ippon scoring technique or a Sambo ultimate victory throw (the remaining standing part aside), I have no idea...

  3. #3

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    Generally a slam is the ability to add or drive force into a throw or take down. While he landed on you that wasn't a slam because he didn't drive you down nor could he because he didn't have the leverage.

  4. #4
    judoka_uk's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Omega the Merciless View Post
    Generally a slam is the ability to add or drive force into a throw or take down...
    Where does that definition come from?

  5. #5

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    Pankration, and oral instruction given during grappling tournaments I've attended.

  6. #6
    judoka_uk's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Omega the Merciless View Post
    Pankration, and oral instruction given during grappling tournaments I've attended.
    Fair enough. As I said earlier its really subjective where you decide to draw lines between the three or even if you regard them as separate concepts. After all Judo considers a 'throw' to have 5 elements - debana, kuzushi, tuskuri, kake and dodome. Dodome being a 'strong finish' or 'killing force' in other words 'the ability to add or drive force'...

  7. #7

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    In BJJ a slam is picking someone off the ground (on their back) and then slaming back on the mat whereas a takedown is anything were you take them down to the mat and end up on top.

  8. #8
    Ungjaevel's Avatar
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    A tournament I competed in recently stipulated that a slam is a takedown where your (ie. the person executing the takedown) feet leave the mat. I thought it was a meh way to put a finger on what constitutes a slam.

  9. #9

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ungjaevel View Post
    A tournament I competed in recently stipulated that a slam is a takedown where your (ie. the person executing the takedown) feet leave the mat. I thought it was a meh way to put a finger on what constitutes a slam.
    Definitely not satisfying. By that definition sarah kaufman didn't slam roxanne modaferri.

    I would say a slam is just using unnecessary force in any takedown other than to complete it.

  10. #10

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    In my judo club, we use this formula:

    Entry + Unbalancing + leverage = throw

    Entry + Unbalancing + preventing balance from being re-established = takedown (so even a push where the pushed can't step back is a takedown)

    Now, a "slam" is a term used for when a throw is performed, but the thrower's feet leave the ground, and he (intentionally) lands on top of the "throwee". Hurts like hell.

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