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  1. Larus marinus is offline
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    Posted On:
    8/14/2010 10:01am

    Join us... or die
     Style: Nothing - yet

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Is that supposed to be a black belt (honestly can't tell from the lighting and video quality)?

    YouTube- jitsu atemi nationals 2006
  2. JudoA is offline

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    Posted On:
    8/14/2010 10:22am


     Style: BJJ

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kovacs View Post
    Those 'V' tests are both the best and worst things I have ever seen since joining Bullshido. They're cripplingly funny but also genuinely chilling that people think that **** like that could save thier lives.
    It represents a "constant stream of attackers" (who all die in 1-2 little techniques).

    Quote Originally Posted by Larus marinus View Post
    Is that supposed to be a black belt (honestly can't tell from the lighting and video quality)?

    YouTube- jitsu atemi nationals 2006
    I'm thinking maybe purple, I recognise most of the brown/black belts out there.

    I still can't find the syllabus, it used to change every couple of months, maybe that's why they took it down.

    Have this instead

    YouTube- Keighley Jitsu Club Demo 2007
    Last edited by JudoA; 8/14/2010 10:23am at . Reason: More content!
  3. nomamao is offline

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    Posted On:
    8/14/2010 12:53pm


     Style: Hung Ga Kung Fu

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    I'm actually going to send this thread out to people I know as a warning. For those guys I MIGHT know that think that randori isn't as important as compliant throwing and that line demos are the awesome, I will say "THIS IS WHAT YOUR SCHOOL CAN BECOME--DON'T DO THIS TO YOURSELVES."

    And for others it will be "LOLtastic" and "WHAT THE HELL IS THIS?" :laughing7
    Last edited by nomamao; 8/14/2010 1:20pm at .
  4. JudoA is offline

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    Posted On:
    8/14/2010 2:36pm


     Style: BJJ

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by nomamao View Post
    I'm actually going to send this thread out to people I know as a warning. For those guys I MIGHT know that think that randori isn't as important as compliant throwing and that line demos are the awesome, I will say "THIS IS WHAT YOUR SCHOOL CAN BECOME--DON'T DO THIS TO YOURSELVES."

    And for others it will be "LOLtastic" and "WHAT THE HELL IS THIS?" :laughing7
    Good, that's kind of the reason I started this thread in the first place. There have been threads on Bullshido in the past about TJF but I felt that the people who started them (or bashed it the most heavily) were people who got out quickly. I didn't. I think of this thread as some kind of penance.

    In other news, I have just been to BJJ and I had a blast. It's good to be doing this again.
  5. madmonkey is offline

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    Posted On:
    8/14/2010 5:09pm


     Style: Boxing

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by nomamao View Post
    I'm actually going to send this thread out to people I know as a warning. For those guys I MIGHT know that think that randori isn't as important as compliant throwing and that line demos are the awesome, I will say "THIS IS WHAT YOUR SCHOOL CAN BECOME--DON'T DO THIS TO YOURSELVES."

    And for others it will be "LOLtastic" and "WHAT THE HELL IS THIS?" :laughing7
    I did jitsu for a year at Newcastle University alongside thai boxing and reached orange belt. I had previously gained a blackbelt in taekwondo(not a great pedigree I know) and thanks to a good instructor had been exposed to the likes of geoff thomson, so I had some knowledge of self defence techniques and sparring.

    While I disagree with a lot of the stuff the jitsu foundation do, particularly their close minded "our way is the right way" approach to self defence and lack of striking, they do have some positive aspects to their training methods and organisation especially for a person starting out in the martial arts.

    -The heavy focus on Ukemi at the beginner level and as a warm up.
    -Pointing out vital points such as solar plexus
    -Grouping of techniques together eg arm locks taught in a numbered order
    -Early exposure to attacks with weapons
    -V is a good beginner exercise for a person to demonstrate techniques against a a variety of attacks (eg for yellow belt, knife stab to face and abdomen(using tanto boken-wooden knife), bottle swing to the head(plastic bottle to simulate glass), punch to the head(haymaker style)
    -only 3 dan grades in the organisation(at least back in 2000)
    -Professional approach to teaching/safety/and grading structure
    -Good clear instruction on techniques and good opportunity to practice each technique
    -Some good self defence principles such as avoiding getting caught up on ground and disarming where possible.
    -focus on running away first
    -Good from a legal position as all moves are reactions to an attack so clearly self defence.
    -good club atmosphere and social aspect (very focused on drinking as uni club)


    The downsides were-
    -Lack of resisting opponents and thus development of skills to control at trapping/clinching range.
    -Some ukemi practises a little questionable in terms of safety eg jumping and rolling over several people/ flipping yourself onto back from standing.
    -Very little use of realistic strikes for attacks later on beyond obvious attacks such as haymaker and kick to testicles
    -Closed minded approach where no other method is thought to be as effective/arrogance of some senior grades in relation to other martial arts.
    -No sparring so not much practice at taking a hit(although they do continue even if struck in the V)
    -false sense of safety and confidence displayed by some students and instructors
    -The defences they teach are not always realistic

    While I agree with some of the points raised in the thread I want to clarify a few points at least from my experience of jitsi as I feel some of the issues raised have not been explained clearly enough.

    I have not tried to setup up a juijitsu club at uni but Newcastle uni and brighton uni (both of which I attended) had jitsu clubs alongside judo, taekwondo, karate, aikido and thai boxing clubs, newcastle had all these except aikido. Universities might be bureaucratic but this should not stop you opening a club as long as you have the right insurance and qualifications, generally easier if you are attached to an organisation.

    You do not have to open a club to become a blackbelt (or at least not when I was training). The idea of being a brown belt for two years and helping run a club is to ensure that as a black belt you are not only proficient in the techniques but can teach and run a class safely. This is a good thing as it ensures that if you do open a club you can instruct competently.

    The competitions you guys mentioned earlier are internal Jitsu Foundation Comps not open to other styles or organisations. They have no connection to the olympics and do not insist on a competition to decide who attends the event, all students are matched to others of their own grade. While this is not great it is no different from a lot of organisations eg British Judo Association competitions which are also style specific and not open to other orgs.

    The fact that some senior students hit on beginners in the club I attended was more due to the fact that it was a university club, everyone was over 18 and there were a lot of club nights out, I can't comment on other non uni clubs (most jitsu clubs are university based).

    The main thing I liked about jitsu was the clear and precise instruction. I had formerly taken judo when I was younger but found it hard to understand the techniques as they were not explained well, I found jitsu helped when I went back to judo as I had much more technical throws than I had had before.

    The reason I left it was due to the fact that they were closed minded and didn't train with much resistance even at later grades, also injury from some of the questionable ukemi warm ups I mentioned.

    Long story short while they are by no means perfect and they do have some problems with their training methods there are worse schools and orgs out there and at least jitsu ensure you are insured properly and they are fairly cheap in terms of cost and do not involve contracts.
  6. Larus marinus is offline
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    Posted On:
    8/14/2010 6:23pm

    Join us... or die
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    Quote Originally Posted by madmonkey View Post
    The fact that some senior students hit on beginners in the club I attended was more due to the fact that it was a university club, everyone was over 18 and there were a lot of club nights out, I can't comment on other non uni clubs (most jitsu clubs are university based).
    Just to clarify this point (because JudoA mentioned this in regards to 'black belts'). Is it the case that the *instructors* have been known to hit on their own students?

    If so, that's getting into pretty sketchy territory.
  7. madmonkey is offline

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    Posted On:
    8/14/2010 7:31pm


     Style: Boxing

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    Quote Originally Posted by Larus marinus View Post
    Just to clarify this point (because JudoA mentioned this in regards to 'black belts'). Is it the case that the *instructors* have been known to hit on their own students?

    If so, that's getting into pretty sketchy territory.
    Not really if the club is at University as the people involved are all consenting adults, god most students are very promiscious at UK Uni's and happily so.

    If this happened at a non university club then that would be more suspect but even then a lot of people in martial arts clubs date, as long as the people concerned are old enough and not vulnerable (vulnerable eg 16 girl and much older male or to be equal 16 male and older female).

    At the clubs I trained at the instructors were decent and respectable enough guys and girls, one was a lecturer and another a local police constable. None of them to my knowledge did anything like this, some had met boyfriends and girlfriends who were also members of the club but it was not treated as some sort of seedy swingers club.

    I cannot speak for JudoA's experience in respect to instructors hitting on students but it is would be unfair and spurious to think that all jitsu clubs operate like that. I have no problem with any of the criticisms of the techniques taught and the martial art of jitsu that have been posted though as they are fairly accurate.
  8. Larus marinus is offline
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    Posted On:
    8/14/2010 8:05pm

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    I wasn't trying to imply that the Jitsu org is run as a stealth swingers club or anything, lol. Just clarifying something for the sake of clarification, really (these threads stick around on the web a long time).

    Yeah, people sometimes hook up after meeting at martial arts clubs (like they hook up after meeting anywhere) - that's not really the issue, or an issue at all. However, it can be a somewhat thorny ethical issue when it comes to sexual relationships arising from a teacher-student relationship (i.e. hooking up with your instructor *whilst* he/she is your instructor), consenting adults of legal age or not.

    Some orgs have specific rules against it (AFAIK) and I know that some instructors who post on here consider it to be anathema to them, or at least 'something very dodgy and inappropriate that can cause big trouble and should be avoided'.

    Can lead to all sorts of allegations/rumours/official complaints regarding abuse of power, favouritism, grooming, sex for belts, coercion, senseis teaching primarily so they can pick up chicks, etc. - and associated loss of reputation.
  9. madmonkey is offline

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    Posted On:
    8/15/2010 5:28am


     Style: Boxing

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    Quote Originally Posted by Larus marinus View Post
    I wasn't trying to imply that the Jitsu org is run as a stealth swingers club or anything, lol. Just clarifying something for the sake of clarification, really (these threads stick around on the web a long time).

    Yeah, people sometimes hook up after meeting at martial arts clubs (like they hook up after meeting anywhere) - that's not really the issue, or an issue at all. However, it can be a somewhat thorny ethical issue when it comes to sexual relationships arising from a teacher-student relationship (i.e. hooking up with your instructor *whilst* he/she is your instructor), consenting adults of legal age or not.

    Some orgs have specific rules against it (AFAIK) and I know that some instructors who post on here consider it to be anathema to them, or at least 'something very dodgy and inappropriate that can cause big trouble and should be avoided'.

    Can lead to all sorts of allegations/rumours/official complaints regarding abuse of power, favouritism, grooming, sex for belts, coercion, senseis teaching primarily so they can pick up chicks, etc. - and associated loss of reputation.
    I take your point and from a professional viewpoint you are absolutely correct. I am a school teacher by career and it would be entirely unethical an immoral not to mention illegal for any teacher to date or have any kind of relationship with a student.

    I am amused by the idea of belts for sex and how any such conversation would start, I imagine Ashida Kim sounding something like "I'm giving you a special grading that will test you physically emotionally and spiritually"
  10. bassai is offline

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    Posted On:
    8/15/2010 6:02am


     Style: shotokan

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    Quote Originally Posted by madmonkey View Post
    I take your point and from a professional viewpoint you are absolutely correct. I am a school teacher by career and it would be entirely unethical an immoral not to mention illegal for any teacher to date or have any kind of relationship with a student.

    I am amused by the idea of belts for sex and how any such conversation would start, I imagine Ashida Kim sounding something like "I'm giving you a special grading that will test you physically emotionally and spiritually"


    We had a situation a couple of years ago where an adult female student offered the chief instructor a blowjob for a guaranteed pass at her next grading , she was summarily kicked out.
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