There are procedures that can expand it to a more normal size.
Originally Posted by Lebell
This, they have a culture of uke abuse.
Originally Posted by JudoA
yeah but you need money for that... :(
Originally Posted by Vieux Normand
It does appear that I am waking up the thread now. I've read all of these posts and what I can say is that having trained over the past 15 years in TJF, Judo, BJJ and other Jujutsu styles, I've learned a lot and had time to humbly compare notes. There is no perfect style at the moment. I have friends who compete in MMA and BJJ and they will happily admit that with more than 2 attackers or even more than 1, they don't feel confident in surviving the onslaught. Likewise, in Judo (Kodokan and USJF), we can slam you into the floor multiple times, but finishing with the appropriate strikes or locks to fully subdue are not always, if ever, taught or stressed. It is basic kata for a reason. I'd really prefer this not to be a history lesson, as many of you are well educated (two styles of Jujutsu I've observed require 20+ page on history and theory before your practical examination).
First, to address those that have had a less than enjoyable experience with TJF, think of each Jitsu Club as slightly independent of the whole body, much like each Judo Club is. I've visited Judo Clubs here and abroad and in some instance not been entirely impressed, some focus entirely on technique and others on competition - same in BJJ. But then you go to that one club where the sensei knows each throw and can make the adjustments to perfect your execution of a basic O Uchi Gari or Harai Goshi. They understand your body type, the tori's and how to communicate to you in order for you to switch on. It is very similar in Jitsu. It depends on the instructor you meet and their knowledge base/experience.
Just like in Judo or even BJJ, not all of the Gokyo Waza is best for your build or a given scenario but drilling it once you have understood the basics through either a "V" or a "Circle" is useful. The purpose is to maintain movement and focus, whilst under severe pressure. When properly run, I've seen great success with them and the students understanding of the techniques. It truly depends on the instructor and their understanding of the techniques and the student's abilities, both mental and physical. I take great pride in translating the Gokyos from Judo and JuJutsu. Keeping in mind that Kano Soke studied many styles of JuJutsu to create Judo and preserve Japanese history and culture. If you visit the Kodokan (I highly recommend it), the GoDans and above will give a full history of both to those that are willing to listen.
As for the break falling, let's take an example of Shiho Nage. I visited an Aikido class where a less experienced student attempted this throw and rather than complete the throw closer to hara (center point), he brought it higher than necessary. If I hadn't done a lot of the break falling in TJF, I would have had a torn rotator cuff. There is need for a variety of reasons and it is incumbent on the instructors to explain the methodology. My students understand the purpose of ukemi from the very beginning.
Resistance and Striking training: again, every instructor is different. All of my students experience this from the very beginning. They grasp the purpose of the uke/tori relationship, just like in Judo and BJJ. The purpose is to help each other grow/learn together and thus prevent a false sense of confidence. Jitsu isn't a fighting style like MMA. It is for self-defence against assailants who aren't martial artists. As for the techniques not being effective, I don't even know where to begin in assessing each of the comments but suffice to say, if I hadn't been introduced to Jitsu many, many years ago, I'd be dead. I survived a knife attack with some cuts but the techniques worked. The idea is to keep moving like water and constantly taking balance. Again, up to the instructor you have. Also, my students learn how to hit properly and where to hit (i.e. which knuckles or hand positioning work best on each body part, etc). They aren't dead zombies at all. Although, I've seen that in other styles as well. You start by learning and then increase the speed of attack and finally create a more realistic scenario. I'm fairly emphatic with that attitude. We don't abuse each other at all, in or out of the dojo. We are respectful, polite and always focused. The injuries that do occur are accidental...just like in Judo. Again, an instructor's obligation is to observe and correct those incidences.
It is regrettable that some of you had a bitter experience with TJF. It would have been nice to meet you and talk about techniques and application thereof. The other styles, I've trained in with Jujutsu do use a very similar set of throws and joint locks, etc. that TJF teaches and the Kodokan holds dear and for good reason. Judo does it from randori and JuJutsu completes them from attacks.
To this day, I still enjoy training in all three, as Jujutsu helps my self-defence understanding of techniques, Judo guides me through a greater understanding of kuzushi and "feeling" the moment of imbalance, and BJJ allows me to understand the subtlety of osaekomi waza in the form of a chess match. I translate that into all that I do and hope it is imparted to my students. That is the job a of a good teacher. TJF offers a lot to people and has helped others turn their lives around in fantastic ways. Don't knock an art by a handful of experiences. To this day, my friends who have committed their lives to each of these styles have mutual respect and we enjoy discuss the theory and how best to translate that to the next generation. There is an instructor and style for everyone. So if you are interested, find a good instructor, just like in Judo or BJJ. It took a decade to find the two who helped my understanding of Bushido and unite them all.
Best wishes in your pursuits. In Budo!
The only thing the TJF gives you a greater understanding of, is the pathetic gullibility of spotty nerds.
Now take your wall of text and giiiiit out.
So... that's a long winded way of saying you don't practice alive training.
Originally Posted by Lobos
Also, where did/do you train BJJ with who? Also where do you practice Judo?
You have to admit the circle thing is total bullshit though, right?
BJMills: I'm really glad to see a wrestler posting here. One of my good friends wrestled Greco-Roman. My respect to you.
The training is very much alive.
Romero "Jacare" Calvalcanti in ATL back before it was popular. Judo was at Kodokan...thus the comment if you have the opportunity to be there, you should. Then in NYC, only two major dojos worth attending there...you can look them up.
Originally Posted by BJMills
CrackFox: Not sure what you mean in reference to that. If you can refer me to an earlier post, I'd appreciate it or an example of the circle thing. (i.e. I don't deal with a lot of forums.)
Originally Posted by CrackFox
Judo we use a lot of circular movement in very tight, well organized fashions. I mean look at Koga Sensei...went to a seminar of his...outstanding instruction. Hope you are well.
You an ATL guy? Awesome. I spent a few years there in the 90s. Great city. I was heavy into Muay Thai back then though so no BJJ for me.
Originally Posted by Lobos
Judo is not in my style field but I took it up recently. Really like it. I don't know anything about the NYC scene though.
I asked about alive training because I have kind of been interested in Sport JJ though. I really like the format of starting standing then going the the ground, but not with quite the intensity of MMA. I'm a little old to be starting an MMA career but I'd still like to compete a bit. I'm to too keen on the whole 'no punching to the face' thing.
Do you spar in your JJ classes?