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  1. milwaukee cop is offline
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    Posted On:
    2/26/2004 10:38am

    supporting member
     Style: Kempo-Goju Karate, BJJ

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    well privlage wouldnt cover you spanking your child if you cause injury, its all under the umbrella of reasonableness, spanking your monkey IS covered under the law no matter how much damage you do.:D
    16 years till retirement.
  2. Sharlintier is offline
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    Posted On:
    2/26/2004 10:47am


     Style: Okinowan Shuri

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Originally posted by milwaukee cop
    this is a very tricky question, as use of force laws, not only vary from state to state, but from city to city. , however in general, you may use resonable force to stop the threat, key word being resonable. the lawyers on this site could answer this one better than i.
    This is how it has been explained to me as well, but reasonable is too vague to be of any real use. It's not something you can set in stone either. I'm a 5'3" female with some martial arts training, I get attacked by a 6'4" male that has me by say 80lbs but he has no training. How much force is reasonable? Can I hit him with my fist? How about an ashtray? He is over a foot taller than me so can I use a cast iron frying pan? He outweighs me by 80 lbs, does that mean I can use a knife? Oh wait he's male and I am female that means I can use a chainsaw right? Oh geez, he's male, a foot taller than me and outweighs me by 80 lbs. where did I put my colt 44, I can use that right? Oh yeah, I know martial arts, I better just use my darringer...

    The same problem comes up when they use the term "equal" force to mean if he has a knife I can have a knife... this is just plain foolishness... same situation... This guy attacks me unarmed... He is taller and heavier than me, that alone gives him a huge advatage, I have martial arts training (some what of an equalizer IF he doesn't know how to fight)... so how do we determine equal force? I think I am done growing and the 80lb difference thing... well I doubt we have time to figure out how to adjust that... do I need to let him take some MA classes first? Well there isn't time for that either since he doesn't really care if we are equal or not and in fact likely prefers his advantage. But then I am limited to what I can do to protect myself without having legal problems.

    And the whole point is moot anyway, because when you are being attacked, you are going to fight back with whatever you have for however long you have too, using whatever force you can muster to feel like you can get away, end of story.
  3. JackHanma is offline
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    Posted On:
    2/26/2004 10:49am


     Style: MantisShrimpFu

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    I'm tried of this legal talk about the "Str33t." Your only concern for the moment to quickly repel the attacker. Your only job is to survive. Its your lawyer's job to keep you out of jail. If the DA wants to prosecute you nothing on God's Blue/Green Earth is gonna stop him.

    Trust me, I know. My parents were prosecuted because the amount of untrimmed grass in their back yard because some DA wanted court practice.

    Remember no one is innocent in court because you can only plead not guilty not innocence. There are plenty of innocent men who are found guilty. Legal reality and actual reality are totally different things. Never ever confuse the two.
  4. Sharlintier is offline
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    Posted On:
    2/26/2004 10:56am


     Style: Okinowan Shuri

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Originally posted by Justme
    Probably true... I think though the officers found out the guy had a history of child-abuse. And, although I wasn't there, he supposedly hit the child with a closed fist pretty hard...
    Mcop is right about that one. If the child was injured or he feared would be your friend could restrain the guy (and it would be a damn shame if he had his head accidentally slammed into the counter or something while being restrained) but he isn't allowed to hit him especially hard enough to lose consciousness. The difference - your friend wasn't defending HIMSELF. Now, if he was trying to restrain the guy from hitting the kid again and the guy took a swing at him... all bets are off, chances are not a jury in the country would say word one about him doing a one punch take down, because he was defending himself from a violent person who had already hit a kid and was trying to hit him.
  5. Xodus is offline

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    Posted On:
    2/26/2004 10:59am


     Style: kickboxing, BJJ

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    I got no idea about this sort of thing - I try to avoid fights. But if someone was attacking me with strikes and I choke him to the point of him losing conciousness, am I in the wrong? It would seem so from whats already been said. Does a choke count as a battery or is it just an assault?

    If I let go of the choke he's going to punch the stuffing out of me so its kind of a lose lose situation.
  6. Sharlintier is offline
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    Posted On:
    2/26/2004 11:07am


     Style: Okinowan Shuri

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Originally posted by JackHanma
    I'm tried of this legal talk about the "Str33t." Your only concern for the moment to quickly repel the attacker. Your only job is to survive. Its your lawyer's job to keep you out of jail. If the DA wants to prosecute you nothing on God's Blue/Green Earth is gonna stop him.

    Trust me, I know. My parents were prosecuted because the amount of untrimmed grass in their back yard because some DA wanted court practice.

    Remember no one is innocent in court because you can only plead not guilty not innocence. There are plenty of innocent men who are found guilty. Legal reality and actual reality are totally different things. Never ever confuse the two.
    All very true. As for the grass issue, just to give you something else to stew about... in order for them to prosecute it (at least in MN) there has to be a complaint from someone that would be impacted by it. Like when a friend of mine got notice that his grass was too long (he was gone on a business trip that was supposed to take 2 weeks and ended up taking just short of 2 months) they had indicated that it was noticed/varified by the city recycling department on their rounds when he had been gone 2 1/2 weeks. But they didn't threaten him with court until almost 7 weeks because it took that long for a neighbor to complain about it. He had actually gotten home and mowed his yard the day before he got the notice that he had one week to comply.
  7. milwaukee cop is offline
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    Posted On:
    2/26/2004 11:08am

    supporting member
     Style: Kempo-Goju Karate, BJJ

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    first off all, when i get sent to a call for a battery, someone gets arrested, i only need probale cause to arrest, a very low threshhold, to be convicted it has to be beyond a resonable doubt, very high threshhold. do what you have to do to protect yourself, just be able to articulate that you were in fear for your safety and you used only enuff force to stop the threat. (and get a good lawyer)
    16 years till retirement.
  8. Mr. Mantis is offline
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    One Ambulance, Eleven Cops...

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    Posted On:
    2/26/2004 11:15am

    Join us... or die
     Style: Kung Fu

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Justme: The law in Ohio is that if you are in public, and you are attacked, you have a duty to retreat if at all possible to do so and be safe. You can match force, but not escalate it in order to keep your self-defense defense. You can not become the aggressor.

    As to the assault issue for your friend. If the asshole he smacked did not sustain serious physical injury, then it would be a simple assault, misdemeanor 1.

    You have a right to defend your self, loved ones or property.
    “We are surrounded by warships and don’t have time to talk. Please pray for us.” — One Somali Pirate.
  9. Sharlintier is offline
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    Posted On:
    2/26/2004 11:15am


     Style: Okinowan Shuri

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Originally posted by milwaukee cop
    first off all, when i get sent to a call for a battery, someone gets arrested, i only need probale cause to arrest, a very low threshhold, to be convicted it has to be beyond a resonable doubt, very high threshhold. do what you have to do to protect yourself, just be able to articulate that you were in fear for your safety and you used only enuff force to stop the threat. (and get a good lawyer)
    Awwww you mean I can't just slip you a few donuts to go away? Damn! Ok, got to come up with a new plan if I go to Milwaukee
  10. Ronin is offline

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    Posted On:
    2/26/2004 11:18am

    Join us... or die
     Style: Shi Ja Quan

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Dead people can't prosecute anyone.
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